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SVS and Music only system experiences and opinions (1 Viewer)

Ryan T

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
406
Here are a few tid bits from diysubwoofers.org.

The choice of which type of subwoofer system is best for you depends on your personal listening tastes and what you hope to achieve. I've listed a few examples below that may assist you in choosing the best system for your needs. Note that these are general examples, e.g. a high-end system does not necessarily have to use a sealed system design for the subwoofer.

Design Goal: High-end audio applications; size no object; excellent transient response.
Sub system: Sealed system, subwoofer driven by a dedicated amplifier.

Design Goal: High SPL sound reinforcement, size no object.
Sub system: Ported or 6th order bandpass system using 12" or 15" drivers.

Design Goal: Add-on subwoofer for small system, low cost, good transient response, small box.
Sub system: Passive 4th order bandpass system using 8" DVC driver.

Design Goal: Add-on "bass unit" for secondary audio system (dormitory, multimedia).
Sub system: Passive 6th order bandpass system using 5.25" or 6" drivers.
 

Ryan T

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
406
I've never heard a sealed sub so I can't comment on hearing the difference, but on paper I doubt you can tell a 4 millisecond difference from a 20hz note on a ported sub vs. a sealed sub.
The best way I can describe the sound is when you have a really good recording of lets say a kick drum. When the Drummer hits the kick drum hard the sound should be a quick punch and then die. With a ported sub the sound seems to "hang" longer than a sealed sub. Another example is if there is a complicated bass solo where the bass player is hitting different strings closely together. A ported sub usually muddys the different sound of the strings. This is just my experience by the way.


Ryan
 

FrantzM

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
69
I became interested in the SVS because of the buzz on HTF. I had never heard of them before. I have never heard one SVS.
I am an audiophile and have audition at length (not in audio stores) all of the speakers I mentioned earlier save for XS which I have heard at a store.

They are all ported and the bass is audiophile quality and the rest as well by the way. They are amongst the most accurate speakers you likely to hear on this planet.

Let us conduct an “einsteinian” though experiment: We take a waveform from an orchestra. The Whack of a mallet on a big drum, tuned to reproduce say, 40 Hz. At the listening position, the level is 98 dB

Speaker A reproduces the waveform perfectly, harmonics, phase and every relationships are intact but reproduces it at , say 60 dB Max..

Speaker B does not reproduce it perfectly it add say 3% of more third harmonics and 2% of fourth harmonics and with some phase anomalies in the order of a very discernible 20 degrees. Level of this one at the listening position is 95 dB.

You are listening to music through these two speakers in a room (everything else being equal people). Guess which one is going to sound more like real music being played in a real space?

This is grossly exaggerated but I have learned through my 40 years in Audio (I am 44) not to dismiss a component based solely on the technology it uses. Some technologies are better suited than others but at the end, it is HOW the designers balance the different parameters that in their appreciation, judgment and knowledge of what the appropriate mix should be that makes the difference, not the technology in itself. I know close to nothing to speaker and sub designs but I find some generalization in the earlier posts (Ryan?) too broad.

SVS are products that are worth investigating. If they are as good as they are said to be, then one can assemble for modest budget a very fine system in term of realism and accuracy both for HT and music Something only multi mega bucks speakers could do before. That is a compelling reason to research them.

DIY is also a venue. I do not care building my main speakers. I am however very much attracted to the IB technology for sub. IB can produce on shoestring bass that surpasses (in term of level, accuracy and THD), the finest and most expensive subs.

Frantz
Port-au-Prince, Haiti
 

Ryan T

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
406
Speaker A reproduces the waveform perfectly, harmonics, phase and every relationships are intact but reproduces it at , say 60 dB Max..

Speaker B does not reproduce it perfectly it add say 3% of more third harmonics and 2% of fourth harmonics and with some phase anomalies in the order of a very discernible 20 degrees. Level of this one at the listening position is 95 dB.

This is grossly exaggerated but I have learned through my 40 years in Audio (I am 44) not to dismiss a component based solely on the technology it uses
I don't mean to sound rude but my I ask what is the purpose of exaggerating something this much?


I never said to dismiss SVS or any ported subwoofer. I simply said sealed subs tend to have better transient response and are better suited for music that ported subs in my experience(This is generalization). I also said I have not heard a ported subwoofer that can reproduce bass with as fast transient response as a low Q sealed subwoofer. Which leads me to believe that if your not looking for low extension and high SPL then you might want a sealed sub for your music since they seem to have better response(This is another generalization BTW).
And yes I am making generalizations why? Because I have not heard every subwoofer made. I have however heard a few subs which are considered to be among the best ported subs any were near there price range(EBS 15" DVC for example).

I'm not saying you can't use a ported sub in a music only system without good results. Or that every ported sub is inferior to sealed subwoofers. I was just suggesting you look at some good sealed subs. I know for me I would not wan't to sacrifice the sound of my low Q sealed sub for more SPL that a ported sub would give me. The trade of of transient response is not worth it in my opinion for a music only system. Part of it is because i've grown very accustom to the sound of my sub. In the end just get what ever YOU like since your the one whos paying for it and have to listen to it :).




Ryan
 

FrantzM

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
69
Ryan

You were not rude :). Your opinions are stated in a most gentlemen way. There is more to the response "speed" or what have you of a sub than just one parameter. Balance of the various parameters is what makes a "good" component. Maybe, (I know nothing about the designs of a speaker) sealed subs have inherently better transient response than their ported counterparts but that does not mean (neither do I declare that you implied so) that it is not possible to design a ported system with characteristics close enough to those of a sealed enclosure and besting it in other important parameter that creates a better listening experience, it is all theoretical to a point but the speakers I mentioned all have TIGHT bass. Now if you can recommend a sealed sub approaching the output, linearity, low distortion (on paper) and price of the SVS, I am open to research it. I do not care much at this point about 120 dB at 20 Hz (Although this would be nice to have:D )


Frantz
Port-au-Prince, Haiti
 

Ryan T

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
406
Unfortunately there are very few sealed subwoofers compared to ported subs on the mark that I know of. Also I'm not sure what type of speakers you can get in Haiti. Really the only speaker that comes to mind for me would be 2 Adire Audio Rava's (which i think have already been mentioned). They won't come very close to the 25 Hz and below output of an SVS subwoofer but they should play pretty loud depending on your room size. I'm actually listening to a 54 L sealed Shiva as I type this and it sounds great! If DIY was an option I would suggest a sealed Tempest or AV15. They should fall way below the cost of an SVS and still perform very well. Although I'm not sure if you have any interest in DIY or even if you could get those subs shipped to you. I've heard nothing but good about the Paradigm Servo-15. Also it look's like B&W make mostly sealed subs maybe you could listen to a ASW CM or an ASW 675. But either the paradigm or the B&W's would blow the budget of the SVS. Unfortunately I have not heard the Paradigm or the B&W subs. So I can't comment on how they sound. The problem is there really isn't a place near my how that stocks subs in this price range that are sealed.







Ryan
 

Ryan T

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Messages
406
ahh yes i forgot about the Titan. Thats supposed to be an incredible subwoofer. Although it's a little more than some some the SVS subs.




Ryan
 

ChrisWiggles

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
4,791
Oh my. I tried to help combat the generalizations. This is not about ported versus sealed. This is about the "musicality" of ONE particular subwoofer. I think we all agree as to the overwhelming merits to SVS in how it's related to the "kinds" of bass reproduced in movies, which, dare I say is usually pretty similar to that in music. I find in general, that music is NOT more demanding than movies on any speaker system, but that YOU demand more from the presentation of music. Now, the demands placed on a subwoofer during a movie are not hugely different than music. Slightly different, yes but this is NOT a HT versus Music argument either. As I tried to describe earlier, the SVS accels at the reproduction of bass material. Period. And at it's price, it's pretty impossible to beat. Can you get better subwoofers if you have the cash? Sure. There's ALWAYS something better out there, in which case the SVS subs higher up the lines are more appropriate competition. This isn't a discussion of the merits of other subs, or designs, or uses. LOTS of designers use ported systems. So what. Some suck, some are amazing. It's like trying to categorize ALL electrostatic speakers against regular transducers. It's an absurd comparison. Bose drivers suck. So what? Getting stuck in stupid ruts about arguing the musicality of a subwoofer based purely on it's design is nonsense. Case in point: acousticrap module. Ported design (since that's all we're supposed to care about, right?) so it's bound to have ooodles of low bass. HAH! Hardly.

So if you want to know about the performance of a speaker, or a subwoofer, listen for yourself, and use the reviews of uses, and owners as a guide. Stereotypes and generalizations based on predictions on paper just start silly flame wars that are a waste of time. Where are those die-hard subjectivists when you need 'em... ;)
 

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