SVS 20-39 PCI Bottoms @ -12?

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Larry Marq, Apr 2, 2003.

  1. Larry Marq

    Larry Marq Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well it was during the opening of ATOC...I originally thought it wasn't...Am I expecting too much from this sub? Is a PC-Plus less likely to bottom at this level (preferrably even louder, like -5)I haven't tried other movies yet. Will the LFE level setting help under surround parameters on a Denon 3803? I like it loud and am willing to upgrade to the plus (I know, I know...) But I don't want to spend 225 more for only a LITTLE louder..Thanks, Larry
     
  2. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2000
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "-12" doesn't mean much. Set your meter to C, fast, and see how loud it's actually playing when it bottoms.

    My single 20-39CSi is good for about 110-113db of output at my seat in my 12x10 sealed room.
     
  3. Dan Joy

    Dan Joy Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Larry,

    There are many things to consider. -12 on my receiver is.... well thats pretty F-ing loud,, louder that I have ever came on my DA5ES. I have a SVS25-31PCi and have never bottomed it out. Reference for me with Avia and Rat Shack meter is -26. You better email SVS before you do something you regret. Calibrate before you play loud or take your consequences!
     
  4. Larry Marq

    Larry Marq Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    104 db about when I hear it clack...17x15 semi open room...
    That is calibrated to internal tones, all speaks set to 75db except sub..So I'm set to 12db BELOW this 75db ref
    Thanks, Larry
     
  5. Dan Joy

    Dan Joy Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What are your other speakers, whats the gain on your sub at , and whats your subwoofer level on your Denon at with ranges?
     
  6. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 1998
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Larry,

    Where is the subwoofer located, in/near a good corner of the room? Also, what is the distance between the subwoofer and the key listening positions? Just curious---but what did you end up with on the speaker and subwoofer settings internally in the Denon (to get them all to 75dBs)?

    Are the listening positions near large openings into the room? Is the 20-39PCi OK with DVDs like IRON GIANT,The PROFESSIONAL, MATRIX, BLADE-1 ?

    Tom V.
    SVS
     
  7. Larry Marq

    Larry Marq Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Tom,

    The sub is about 12' from me at right front corner..there is a hall opening close to the corner on the right wall...Speakers set at
    LF -3
    C -3
    RF -3

    RS -1.5

    LS -1.5
    using internal tones on 3803. With AVIA it was fronts at 0db (forgot the surround setting)

    NOt sure about the other movies yet...just set it up [​IMG]

    Thanks Tom

    Larry
     
  8. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  9. Larry Marq

    Larry Marq Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  10. Chris_O

    Chris_O Agent

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Larry,

    I would try moving your sub. My room sounds very similar to yours. When I first got my sub I place it in my right front corner and was less than impressed with the bass. My right wall has a large opening about 3 ft. from the corner where my sub was sitting. I moved my sub to my left front corner which doesn't have an opening on my left wall. The difference is night and day. I calibrated my sub using AVIA to 87 DB and I have never bottomed out. My sub is also about 12 ft. from my seat. My room is about 14' by 18' and I have a 20-39 PCI.
     
  11. Willem Vos

    Willem Vos Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Larry, you still haven't said at what position the gain on your sub was set at.

     
  12. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Larry,

    Definitely experiment with room placement to the extent that is possible. I think you could be looking at a combination of loss from a too-close permanent opening, and also possibly a room null.

    Do you have the capability to burn a CD with test tones and run a frequency response sweep in the room? It will show if you have a major drop-out anywhere in the curve that could be contributing to a weak bass response. Many users find plotting the FR curve to be a very useful tool in evaluating their sub performance. If you are interested in this, let me know. I can even set you up with a custom Excel spreadsheet that automatically includes the RS correction factors - all you have to do is input the raw data and it will spit out your curve.

    If you are not interested in doing an FR sweep, a time honored method that still works pretty well is to place the sub at the listening position and crawl around the room, listening for the best and/or strongest bass response. When you find that location, try the sub at that point and see how you like it.

    Regarding the 75/85 dB question - that calibration volume applies to all high quality surround speakers regardless of physical size or bass capability. The real issue here is if you are using tiny satellite speaks, then your high pass filter point needs to be set at 100 or 120 Hz in order to avoid a depression in the FR. You cannot run tiny sats high passed at 80 Hz - it just won't sound right and you might damage them at higher volumes. If you are running decent sized speaks all around (say with an F3 of 55 Hz or lower), then an 80 Hz high pass will work great.

    Willem:

    I think Larry may have been experimenting with different sub settings to see if his 3803 is experiencing a possible bass management problem discussed over in the AVR and amp section of HTF. I think it was implied that he recalibrated again to 75-78 dB after he lowered the sub setting from 0 to -6.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  13. Willem Vos

    Willem Vos Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  14. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  15. Willem Vos

    Willem Vos Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  16. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not true about the Denon. I also have the 3803 and my settings are:

    sub level: 0
    mains level: -3
    Master Volume: 00
    Sub gain setting: about 1/4
    mains calibration: 75 dB
    sub calibration: 78-79 dB

    I have found with the 3803 (at least mine anyway), I need to run the internal sub level setting a few clicks above the internal mains setting in order to achieve the proper bass response. I know, it's weird but it's true. For more info, chase down that "3803 bass management" thread over in the receiver/amp section.

    Since I am running at sub level 0, that would account for the lower gain setting at the SVS plate amp as compared to yours, since you are running at -6.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  17. Willem Vos

    Willem Vos Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2000
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks Ed.

    I think I read your thread already...(already a bit hazy though) something about a bass management bug in the 3803.

    I have the 3802, so I'm not sure if it has the bug.
    Worth a try setting the sublevel above the mains...(I hope I remember to lower the sub-gain first, though [​IMG] )

    The -6dB setting I have now is just for the cleaner signal it is supposed to give.

    Regards,
    Willem
     
  18. Larry Marq

    Larry Marq Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey guys,

    Sorry for the ambiguity...

    Yeah, I reset sub gain to acheive 78db after each receiver adjustment. You are correct Ed, when you suspected I was checking my BM (so to speak [​IMG] ). There is a close opening to the sub. It stays very close to 1/3 gain whatever I do.. When using AVIA LFE sweep the meter is all over the place. Gotta go for now...My anniversary and I'm already in trouble for getting the sub , so I'd better go! Be back Sunday...

    Later, Larry THANKS!
     

Share This Page