SVS 20-39 or 16-46 PC/CS?! (1 Viewer)

[Rudi B]

10/12 inch driver in a sealed enclosure, which is smaller than SVS's, with an equalized amplifier for the bottom-end response? No way.

I have seen these subs at local dealers and geez, are they small... But costed 3/4 of my TCO for an SVS PB-2+... Na-a.

 

[steve nn]

Bo here is a list for you to use for reference. http://members.cox.net/frankcarter/T...Sub%20Data.htm

The SVS you see on the list is the one they started out with and this sub did not have the new ISD driver. The new ISD is a couple db better than the older but still a formidable driver.

350 watts would be just fine to run the 25-31+ or the 20-39+. Tom V confirmed this for you.

You will notice a increased performance with the dB+ driver and especially it's output capability with out bottoming. 2-3 db increase over the new ISD at 30 hz and over and a 4-5 db increase under 30 hz. 25-31CS+/25-31CS

Back to painting our living-room. :frowning:

 

[Bo Assdale]

What about the potential "mismatch problem" that I (might) encounter when pairing the Samson S-700 with the LFE-channel of my Yamaha 740?!

Are most eq.'s equipped with the opportunity of "boosting the signal" or is it a rarity?!

Once again- what does the subsonic filter "do"?!

By the by- I can't get my hands on a Behringer Feedback Destroyer here ind Denmark without paying top-dollar for it!! ...not even 2nd-hand... not right now anyway, so will the Denon DE-70 (if you would be so kind as to search for it at dba.dk as I'm not allowed to link before hitting my 15th post...!) solve my problems with adjusting the the sub and "signal-boost"?!

Thanks in advance!!

Bo

 

[Ron Stimpson]

Bo,

No one answered your question about subsonic filters probably because they figured you memorized our site by now ;^)

Put simply, a subsonic filter (like the one we sell... which incidentally takes care of ANY impedance/level matching problem since it packs 18dB of gain.) will allow a sub to "focus" on what frequencies it's best suited to reproduce. So it'll actually protect a sub from very low stuff, and allow you to push it harder on the more common stuff you want anyway. This is an over simplication but it's about right. For more read about the SVS "Black Box". http://www.svsubwoofers.com/marchandsubsonic.htm

Usually subsonic filters are "set it and forget it" deals, but most our Plus and Ultra models make it fun to mess with the filters and the port plugs to customize the sound for your room and tastes.

Really since our powered subs come with subsonic filters (some like on our PC-Plus subs are adjustable, some are not, like on our PCi subs) they are more popular. As long as you are not trying to squeeze out the last dB of performance from a sub, a filter is NOT needed!

Ron

 

[Bo Assdale]

Hey everyone!

Since the last time I wrote I have had my eye on a PC+-model- more specified the 20-39 one! Furthermore the PC-Ultra has become available for us "mortal" customers at SVS' site! I considered it for a while but then decided it was out of my budget-range!
Instead I had a look at the PB2-ISD and it is just within my reach financially (You have to consider that I'll have to have the respective sub sent to Denmark- Northern Europe- and also pay a lot of extra taxes as well as custom-fees )

...but what about the PB2-ISD how does it compare to the 20-39 PC+ or the PC-Ultra performance-wise?! Can I get similar SPL's out of the PB2 as I can with the cylinders? The PB2 does have 2 (!) 12" drivers but they are "only" Improved Standard Drivers!

 

[JohnSmith]

Bo- email Tom, he'll inform you of the SPL differences between the single box driver/dual box driver/cylinder and ISD/plus/Ultra versions. I don't think any of use could say- there's too many variables.

Yeah I paid TAX/Customs too- about £150. Ah well. Personally I wouldn't buy ANY box SVS sub- they're tuned to 25hz. For example I'm sure the B4 Plus is great. it's loud anyway- having four drivers, and being higher tuned. But 25hz stock tune isn't ideal. To get the same LF as my 20-39 PC Plus (one plugged) I would need to plug two ports on the Dual/Quad boxes. I think that will hurt performance.

Can't help with the Samson/Yamaha gain issue or the BFD. BFD's are available in the UK. Don't buy one straight away- you might not need it. Once you get your sub plot a graph, then you can decide to buy one.

Yamaha subs aren't that great at all. The SVS is a much better sub.

Personally I would recommend either going for the 20-39 PC Plus or 16-39 PC Plus. Unless you REALLY want high SPL output- go for the PC Ultra. Honenstly you won't need it.

I have the same sized room as you- 4M X 4M. The PC Plus can easily fill this room. Don't worry about buying quad SVS's- the Plus can go LOUD & LOW.

 

[JohnSmith]

Oh if you want to compare subs- measure how loud yours will go with a certain scene before it sounds distorted (sub only switched on) at 2M. I will do the same. If I can bare it.

I know this isn't a great test. But better than nothing.

 

[Bo Assdale]

Hey JohnSmith!

I will max. have one port plugged if I invest in the PB2-ISD! I asked SVS about the 20-39 PC+/PB2-ISD and I got the following reply (the *************x*********** is of course the answers)- From Ron S.):

-------------------------------
-------------------------------

How do your boxed subs (i.e. PB2-ISD and the PB2+)
compare to the 20-39 PC+ performance-wise?

**** The PB2-ISD will edge out the PC-Plus by a bit above 25Hz, but in
most rooms the PC+ will have more relative depth below that. The
PB2-Plus will have more output over the entire frequency response range, about 1.5 times as much as a PC+ roughly. Of course the light weight, small footprint of the PC subs mean they are still the best choice for many customers. ****

The PB2-ISD is surely within my budget, but is it a
better sub than the 20-39 PC+?!

*********** If you have lots of space for the sub, and like the box
form
factor (boxes do allow you to use them as end tables, magazine stands
etc) then I would certainly recommend it over the PC+, though again
both
subs have their advantages. **********

My Music/Movie-ratio is about 60/40 and i seldomly
(but sometimes) plan on listening at v-e-r-y loud
listening-levels!

*********** PB2-ISD is probably the better choice then for sure
**********
---------------------------------
---------------------------------

I know Ron S. has ultimately answered "the big question" but please read on !

Will dual 25-31 CS+'es outperform all of the abovementioned subs when it comes to dB's in the 20 Hz and sub-20 Hz-region?!

The following is the costs I am looking at when shipping, custom-fees and taxes ARE included:

20-39 PC+ -------$1420 (Shipping is $170 of this amount)
PC-Ultra ---------$1830 (Shipping is $185 ------------------)
PB2-ISD ---------$1620 (Shipping is $235-------------------)
PB2+ ------------$2050 (Shipping is $235-------------------)
2 x 25-31 CS+ (+ used Samson S-700 amp for 175$) $2100 (I've "pretended" that the shipping is $300)

I, of course, want my sub to be "future-proof" but I don't plan to EVER have a HT situated in a really large HT-room (max. 6x6 meters)!

Could I play really, r-e-a-l-l-y LOUD (RL) with just a 20-39 PC+ or a PB2-ISD in the 20 Hz range in a room of this size?!

I have the money for any of these subs "but" my current setup consists of the following:

TV: Dantax 33"- 4:3
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V 740
Mains: Dali 15a
Center: Mission 75c
Rears: Eltax HT-2 (Bipolars)
(Current sub- Yamaha YST sw-800)

I am a regular bass-freak (just can't enough ;-) but will I likely be satisfied with one of the "lesser" SVS'es in my 4x4 meter room when I am used to a Yamaha sub that often torments me with flutter from the bass-port when things get "hot" (did anyone say Titan A.E.......?)?!

Should I (instead of using the majority of my HT-budget on one of the more expensive subs) invest in a PC+ or perhaps a PB2-ISD and use the rest of the budget for a rear center (maybe upgrade some of my speakers) or perhaps buy good cables for all of my speakers (the cables I have now- except for the center- are pretty crap/not that good ;-)

I know you guys can't make the decision for me but every s-i-n-g-l-e advice will be like heaven smiling upon me ;-)

 

[Rudi B]

Bo,

My vote is for 20-39PC+ / PB2+. $600 is a big difference, 3dBs probably isn't. Pick one! Can't miss. PB2+ is a monster that will make you grin everytime you'll look into the "dark corner". At least I do!

I think that the powered models are a much better value because of the intergrated crossovers and subsonic filtering, a major plus in bass reflex subwoofer designs.

Oh, and act quick. The US/Euro exchange rate is marvelous right now! Too bad it wasn't that nice a few months ago...

Also, re-read my post, #5 in this thread.

 

[steve nn]

Considering you dilemma, I think I would go with the PB2+ also. The heck with the S-B. I turned mine off a long time ago. Not that their not important but to me 5.1 is just as good if not better, considering my couch backs up to the back wall and the S-B is angled down instead of 3-4' behind me. I don't know if this is the case with you but gosh I would put my $$ into a good quality sub as opposed to the S-B. Some might disagree but for the $$ imo a good quality sub is a way better option than the S-B.

 

[WayneO]

Considering the amount of trouble/costs you go through, your desire to run at 20hz, and to get an SVS to where you are, the PB2+ would be the one to get to avoid any thoughts of buying a sub again. And that sub will have anyone you know in envy once you show it off.

 

[JohnSmith]

Bo- the scene you mention that causes problems with the Yamaha is not a problem with the 20-39 PC Plus.

If you're really unsure, get the PC Ultra (It's only a couple of hundred $ more, plus extra for VAT/Duty etc) Having a sub that doesn't take up much floorspace in a small room is a bonus. No way could I fit the PB2 boxes in my 4m x 4m room. Have you measured up the cab? They are HUGE.

Shipping for the cylinders is much cheaper. Total shipping to the UK for the PC Plus was £130.

I ran Darla's fish tank sequence. 7.0 speaker system calibrated to 85dB, subwoofer at 82/83dB. Temporary ran the sub +5dB hot in the Logic 7 mode(Lexicon MC-1) 80hz xover- stuff in other rooms was rattling. Imagine someone grabbing you by the shoulders and shaking you. It felt like that. Even with it LOUD- master at -5dB (and with one port plugged) the sub did not feel like giving up. I cannot see why you should want more. Having the sub channel +20dB or so hot will sound horrible- nice for a demo to show off your sub "how loud if can go" but well OTT.

How loud is "very loud"? If you've calibrated all to 75dB, what is your normal listening level? Do you run the sub hot?

 

[Bo Assdale]

My guess is this (after reading JohnSmith's reply)- The 20-39 PC+ will give me more than enough bass for my HT (...and especially when considering what kind of "quality" bass I am used to)

...but will a "twin" for the PC+ give me the power/bass of a PB2-Plus if I decided to upgrade at a later time?!

 

[Rudi B]

2x PC+ is a 1-2dB improvement over a PB2+. But it is a lot costlier, so that's why I bit the bullet with the box and called it a day.

And PB-2+ really isn't that big once it's hidden in a corner (my room is 4.5x5.5m). Lots of fun with moving it and somehow cramming it into a car, tho...

 

[JohnSmith]

Having a dual setup will require some tweaking (phase adjustment on one sub) however you'll get a improvement in dynamic range and maximum spl output. But I doubt you'll even go near the limits of the 20-39 PC Plus in a small room.

A dual sub system CAN be better than a single sub, if you're willing to spend time. If your current sub is showing localisation than dual subs in the opposite L/R corners will create more even bass from the front soundstage. Again depends on room size & shape, levels from sub, seating etc.

Remember some people use 16hz PCi's in large rooms and mention they're not even close to the limits. Then imagine the higher output you get from the 20hz model, and 200W amp/higher output driver in a tiny room.

I also own a Rel Storm.. checkout my review on audioreview on the SVS sub comparing it (Nathan the limey) if you used the Rel before then you can get a idea of the huge improvement will have- cleaner, louder, deeper, no port noise.

Personally for your room I would go for four B4 Ultra's, with two Crown K2's. Then later upgrade to another four B4 Ultras, just in case

 

[Rudi B]

John,

B4 Ultra? Eh? I'm pretty sure that we won't ever see anything like that.

 

[JohnSmith]

Apparently the B4 Ultra is in the pipeline. Still hush hush at the moment.

I've heard someone specifically asked for a B4 with four Ultra's. If you ask nicely they'll build one for you.

 

[Rudi B]

The only thing that I remember about a B4 Ultra is, that a prototype was indeed built, but it was way too heavy (350 pounds?). Also, the only compromise in B4+'s design was the weight, they kept it under 200 pounds.

But I also know that SVS builts custom beasts... Darnit, who has one, give us pics!

 

[Bo Assdale]

JohnSmith>> "Personally for your room I would go for four B4 Ultra's, with two Crown K2's. Then later upgrade to another four B4 Ultras, just in case"

It's a little over my budget at the moment but your recommendation is duely noted!

 

[Bo Assdale]

Seriously- I'm taking the plunge: PB2-Plus it IS!!!!!

I figured- what the hell- I'm already spending big bucks, so why not spend a little more... and get a sub that will knock my friend's cousin's multi-thousand HT of the the map!! No doubt- his amp and the rest of his speakers bests mine any day, but his sub is an Infinity Intermezzo 1.2!
Look here to see how it compared to the "old" 20-39 CS with a 190 w Fidek amp. Caaaaaaan't wait to really rub it in!

http://members.cox.net/frankcarter/T...Sub%20Data.htm

Uhhhhhh- I'm excited!!!!!
I am going to sell my current Yamaha sub (hopefully I can get $500 for it (it still has 20 months of warranty left on it!)

...and hopefully I can sell a set of drums for $430!!

When my sub is "gone" I'll place my order for the "Queazy-nator-Plus"!

Well whuppa-dee-dooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!