SVS 20-39 or 16-46 PC/CS?! (1 Viewer)

[Bo Assdale]

Hey everyone!!

This is my first post on this forum and I have a couple of questions concerning the infamous SVS subs!!

I really have nothing to add to the following which is a copy of an e-mail I have sent to the guys at SVS!!

...but perhaps any of you guys have some expert-advice you would like to share with me and maybe have some knowledge when it comes to my current sub (Yamaha YST sw-800) and/or Receiver (Yamaha RX-V 740)?!

P.s. You'll have to excuse my English but I'm not a "native"- I come from Denmark!

This is the mail:
---------------------------------
Hey SVS!!

I have been offered a used Samson S-700 (perfect- apart from a couple of scratches & it is fully functional) for 175$!
Because of the aforementioned offer I don't know if I should choose either the powered 20-39/16-46 or the passive models with according specs?! The powered models are priced at exactly 170$ more than their passive "counterparts"! On my receiver it seems I can only adjust the output level of the LFE but not the crossover (I have the Yamaha RX-V 740) Is this a must when adjusting the sub to your HT or what do you reckon?!

I currently have my HT setup in a 4x4 meter room and really don't know what sub I would get the most out of...!

On your web-page you write that with the 16-46 (and it's deep extension) you sacrifice the "higher" low-frequency notes (... in the 20-50 Hz department) for the deeper bass!
...but how many dB's are we talking about- 'cause I'm guessing the 16-46 isn't exactly a slouch when it comes to the "higher frequencies"...!

Are there a lot of movies that actually take advantage of the sub-20 Hz that the the 16-46 can produce?!

I currently own a Yamaha YST sw-800 (and have so for only about 2 months)! My problem is that it suffers from a great deal of port-noise during "hectic bass-scenes"! Especially the "Ice-crystal scene" in Titan A.E. is making it cry uncle, mommy, Bob Saget and what not!!!
I bought it for about 640$!

When I ad everything up (Sub+Shipping+Custom-fees+"Extra taxes")- a 16-46 CS sets me back 955$ (...+ the 175$ for the used Samson S-700)

Can you honestly say, that it outperforms the Yamaha by that much (dollar for dollar!!)
Can the CS i.e. "do" the Ice-Crystal scene at LOUD levels without crying Danny Tanner?! Once again will I need the opportunity to adjust the crossover and so on?!

Hugs & Kisses
Bo Andersen

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Shower me with advice concerning some/all of the above-mentioned questions/"riddles"! It will be much needed and appreciated!!

 

[Edward J M]

Please provide:

- room dimensions

- ceiling height

- describe any permanent openings and their location with respect to the proposed subwoofer location

- the distance from the proposed subwoofer location to the key listening positions

- your preferred playback volume for HT (moderate, loud, or REALLY room-shakingly loud)

- your listening tastes for music (mainly looking for source material with really deep subsonic content like pipe organ)

Regards,

Ed

 

[Bo Assdale]

- Room dimensions- 4x4 meters

- Ceiling Height- 2.20 meters

- "Permanent openings"- a door behind the left front speaker (Dali 15a) but it's always closed when listening at a loud level! The door is situated at the opposite wall of where the sub is likely to be placed!

- Distance from sub to key listening positions (min/max)- 0,30 cm/4 meters

- Loud & the occational REALLY loud- when I'm showing of in front of my friends

- Music tastes- Mainly Hip Hop but otherwise a bit of rock (I would like to start listening to classical because of the "soothing effect" when I'm in "work mode" but I haven't got any CD'es yet!")
:frowning:

Bo

 

[Edward J M]

OK, you have a small room (about 1000 ft2), and mainly are into HT and hip hop/rock.

If you can find an excellent S700 for $175 that's a great deal.

I would advise the 25-31 CS or the 20-39 CS for you. You can always add a second cylinder in the future if you move to a larger room. But a single cylinder in that size room should be plenty powerful.

Your listening tastes do not dicate the need for a 16-46 CS, and I think you would be better off with the smaller cylinder that has a bit more punch and output in the more common HT and music frequency regions.

Furthermore, in that small room, you will have good "room gain" and will realize about another 3-4 Hz extension from any model you choose. If I was going to choose for you, I'd opt for the 25-31 CS, which should be flat to nearly 20 Hz in-room and will really pound well for HT and hip hop/rock.

Regards,

Ed

 

[Rudi B]

Bo,

I replaced a Yamaha YST-SW800 with an SVS PB2+ ... From now on, I can barely categorize the Yammie as a subwoofer, more a fart box

I blew around $1900 for everything (customs, shipping, VAT,...) but you only live once, I guess... And I still can't find anything available at local dealers that would best the PB2+, no matter the price.

BTW, my room is a bit larger (4.5 x 5.5 x 2.2 m), music taste mainly rock type and, yes... You will get interested in deep-bass classical stuff, trust me

I would suggest a CS+ 25-31 - shipping cost should be a bit lower, you will have quasi 16Hz playback capability (port stuffing), and you won't keep asking yourself "What if, what if I bought the plus"...

 

[Edward J M]

Also consider the following:

S700: $175
25-31CS: $379
Total: $554

25-31PCi: $550

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

S700: $175
Dual 25-31CS: $758
Total: $933

PB2-ISD: $900

Of course delivery will eat you up for any/all of the above, but I simply want to illustrate what a good value a powered cylinder is compared to the passive rig and a single cylinder.

And if you went with dual passive cylinders to take advatage of the second S700 amp channel, a better choice for the same money would be the PB2-ISD, with variable tuning and the SS filter, etc.

Regards,

Ed

 

[Frank Carter]

Beware of Yamaha and pro audio gear like the Samson amp...I've tried a Samson S1000 w/2 different Yamaha receivers and with both I had an impedance mismatching problem. The Yamaha's LFE output couldn't drive the Samson properly. The problem was fixed by purchasing the SVS/Marchand box to boost the signal. It also adds continously variable phase on one output and an adjustable subsonic filter. I'm not saying that it definitely will cause a problem in your case but I'm not the only one who's had problems with the Yamaha/Samson combo(I've had no problems with my current HK receiver). If you buy an SVS with a built in amp you can avoid the possibility of the problem all together. If you want to get the SVS/Marchand box, then you'll have the added flexibility for any other sub you get in the future.

 

[steve nn]

Hi Bo. Considering all of your perimeters I would listen to Ed very closely. You will not be disappointed.

 

[Bo Assdale]

Thanks for the advice everybody!

Do you know if the passive version of the 20-39 actually produces a couple more dB's than its' powered counterpart?!

...currently I'll have to say, that the 20-39 PCi is in the lead (...I WAS opting for the 16-46 CS, but your advice coupled with the same recommendation coming from SVS' Erik K- I'm almost sure!!)
Futhermore- I can (if I'm lucky) get a demo of the 20-39 PCi here in Denmark- because a guy on a "local" forum owns one!! Yippeee for me!

...but keep the advice coming (and if anyone knows of a similar performer to the 20-39 PCi in the same price-class- let me know!! I am open to suggestions!

 

[Edward J M]

Do you know if the passive version of the 20-39 actually produces a couple more dB's than its' powered counterpart?!

The BASH amp takes up a very small amount of internal enclosure volume. In "theory", there will be a very tiny difference in output capability, but it's nothing you will ever notice in actual use, and it's certainly not a "couple of dB". It might amount to 0.5 dB (if I recall correctly), which would be virtually unnoticeable.

 

[Zack_R]

Do you know if the passive version of the 20-39 actually produces a couple more dB's than its' powered counterpart?!

Actually, any db output differences would probably occur below the tuning point. IIRC, the SVS owner's manual states the following: The 2039 CS+'s -3db point is spec'd at 18 Hz while the 2039 PC+'s -3db point is spec'd at 20 Hz. The 2531CS+ -3db point is 22Hz while the PC+'s -3db point is 25Hz. I'm thinking the PB2s are spec'd with a -3db point of 25 Hz.

Other differences that could come into play is that the passive subs have no subsonic filter preventing you from trolling deeper. As long as you don't play movies very loud you will likley not have any issues. I'm not against the use of subsonic filters per sey, but I think a better match for the 2039CS+s is something like the Marchand box or the Rane-17 where engaging the subsonic filter does not apply boost. This allows you to more safely play with all ports open. A 15 setting on the Marchand Box or using the Rane's adjustable setting to customize a filter of your choice is a natural match for the passive subs. At $400 new, the Rane-17 also gives you a 5 band parametric eq.

I realize with my comments above that I'm in the minority here but for the most part everything that would be viewed as an advantage to most folks when considering a powered sub I view as a disadvantage. SVS is one of the few companies producing a variety of passive subs and I hope they continue.

In small rooms these differences are probably mute for most folks as the room gain will give you a good bit of extension anyway. But for large rooms, I think the differences are important since the -3db point may be all the usable extension you will achieve given the ported nature of the SVS and the inherent 24 db per octave roll-off slope.

 

[Bo Assdale]

What about 2039 CS+- it will set me back 1090$
Could I then use the Samson S-700 with it or is it to underpowered to properly take advantage of the CS+ series!
Would it be a foolish move to invest in the CS+ series when not equipped with a fitting amp to power it! Would the "common" CS or PCi be a better fit?!

 

[Zack_R]

What about 2039 CS+- it will set me back 1090$ Could I then use the Samson S-700 with it or is it to underpowered to properly take advantage of the CS+ series!

You could use the S-700 but you will not get the full benefit by stepping up to the plus. The problem you will face is that you will wonder what it would sound like with more power (even if you don't need it) so you'll likely end up with the S1000 one way or another.

If it were my room, I'd get the PB2-ISD. If that's too much money at once then purchase the S700 and get one 2531CS. Then over time if you want to add a second sub you can do so rather cheaply or with the savings you can purchase an equalizer. I think your room is small enough that you can get a higher tuned sub, save money while getting the effect of a lower tuned sub.

 

[steve nn]

350 watts will make the plus series sing Bo. You might be able to gain a db in a dual situation by throwing 450 watts at each channel. Nothing to be concerned about I assure you. Go with the 20-39CS+ along with the S-700 imo and see what you think. Most likely it will be a (out of body experience) and that will be the end of it. Just keep in mind what Frank says also. I have heard of this with the Yamaha. Could be a few more dollars but you will have bass that can/will be very addicting.

 

[Bo Assdale]

Hey everyone- thanks for all the advice!

What exactly is a "subsonic filter"- please don't disown me because of this "n00B-ish" question...!

I can buy a used 12-band equalizer (Denon DE-70) and a Kenwood SA 90 Spectrum Analyzer (whatever the h*** that is :b ) for about 80$ in total!

(I had included a link, but was told, that since I hadn't posted 15 times yet, I couldn't link to any pages :frowning

Will these "gadgets" help me in "tweeking" the passive sub- i.e. crossover?!

... or maybe even remove the entire "Yamaha/Samson mismatch problem"? (...nah I thought not)

I have a hard time simply disregarding the Samson S-700 offer (...a steal if you ask me ) and the mere possibility of connecting yet another passive sub to it already has me drooling...

...but if the abovementioned equalizer won't help me "adjust" the sub, then it's: "Goodbye passive- hallo powered!!"



By the way do any of you know of a sub called Infinity Intermezzo 1.2S?! If so then where (performans-wise) would you place it in the whole "SVS-scheme"?!

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Hi Bo,


Steve is right...the CS+ will work fine with 300-350 watts. Jumping from 350 to 450-500 watts might give you another dB or so of headroom(maximum output capability) but unless you'll be pushing the subwoofer very hard...this probably won't even be audible.

Tom V.
SVS

 

[Bo Assdale]

Hi Tom!

So will I get more dB's with a CS+ than a CS eventhough I'm using the exact same amp to power either?!

By the way do you know of people/customers who have had problems with a Samson amp and Yamaha RX-V 740 "combo"?!

...or for that matter any of the newer Yamaha models?!

...if so I'll have to invest in a powered model!

What about these "old" questions:


I can buy a used 12-band equalizer (Denon DE-70) and a Kenwood SA 90 Spectrum Analyzer (whatever the h*** that is ) for about 80$ in total!

Will these "gadgets" help me in "tweeking" the passive sub- i.e. crossover and such?!

 

[Frank Carter]

EQ's definitely help if you take the time to use it properly. Adding the BFD to my system is one of the best things I've done.

 

[Bo Assdale]

At the very least do you think "my eq" could boost the signal and, if nothing else, help me with that problem?!

 

[Bo Assdale]

BUMP! Please- do any of you have answers to any of the questions on this page that has not been answered?! Look up

Will either a SVS 20-39 CS+ or a 25-31 CS+ (powered only by a Samson S-700) match or even exceed the B&W ASW650 or B&W ASW675?!

Have any of you tried the B&W's?! Please help as I really want my money put to the best use ! (...don't we all?!)