SVS 16-46PCi with a SVS 20-39PCi. Better than a PC-Ultra?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Ferdinand*T, Mar 5, 2004.

  1. Ferdinand*T

    Ferdinand*T Second Unit

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    Hey guys I have a question for you all. I plan to move in about a year and its most likely going to be a bigger house down in Orlando, FL. I doubt it can get much smaller than what I'm living in now. So I can expect my new theater room to be bigger. I love my SVS 20-39PCi but I want even lower end bass now. So I was thinking about getting a 16-46PCi to run along side it. This is my cheapest route but I'm looking for whats going to give me the best sound. Or I could save my money and when I'm ready sell my current SVS to get a PC-Ultra and be able to get variable 16 or 12Hz. Or even a PB2-Plus. I don't plan to do anything anytime soon, probably late summer or fall before I make my move. What do you think is going to give me the best results?
     
  2. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Mixing two different size PCi cylinders is generally not recommended - the resulting FR might look more uneven as compared to using two of the same size.

    The 20-39 cylinder gets down to about 17 Hz in most rooms; it doesn't get much lower than that.

    The 16-46 cylinder gets down to 12-13 Hz in most rooms; are you sure you want/need to get that low?

    Maybe what you want is more power and output in the common DVD action/fantasy bass region of 22-30 Hz?

    If you could describe what you want more of from your current rig, maybe we can pin it down a bit better.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  3. Ferdinand*T

    Ferdinand*T Second Unit

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    Well I would consider myself a bass nut. I love my current SVS, sounds great. I've gotten use to it and now I'm like Tim Allen I just want more power. I figured since I was looking to get a second SVS I'd get one that would go lower but if thats not a good idea I won't. Now what about another 20-39PCi? If I did this how would it compare to one PC-Plus or one PC-Ultra for that matter? Better or not as good? Here is what I'm running.

    Receiver: Denon AVR-4802
    Mains: B&W DM602 S3
    Center: B&W LCR60 S3
    Sides: B&W DM601 S3
    Rears: B&W DM600 S3
    Sub #1: SVS 20-39PCi
     
  4. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    I wouldn't necessarily say going lower is good or a bad idea - I just wanted to find out what you were really after.

    The 16-46 goes so low at the expense of reduced output (compared to its smaller brothers) in the more common bass regions.

    If it's more punch and impact you're after, a second 20-39PCi would be a better choice. Or if you have the floor space, a PB2-ISD.

    Twin 20-39PCi cylinders co-located will have the edge over a single 20-39PC+. From about 17-25 Hz it would be close with the edge still going to the duals, and in the >25 Hz region, the advantage of the duals will grow to the 3-4 dB range. So if you can live with the larger footprint of dual PCi cylinders, they will slightly outperform a single PC+.

    Step up to a PC-Ultra and I think it would be too close to call against dual co-located 20-39PCi.

    If you are into the $1,100-$1,200 region, though, take a hard look at the PB2+; it will handily outgun even a PC-Ultra, especially in the >23 Hz region.

    You would have to push any of the above options to the limit to exploit the performance differences between them. Any of them will provide superb bass (clean, loud, flat, deep and low in distortion).

    You are down to personal preferences and space considerations at this point. Some of the recent research indicates that splitting up dual subs into differet locations can yield an overall smoother bass response in the room at more listening locations - at the expense of losing a few dB of maximum output/headroom.

    These references might help you with sub placement, regardless of whether you go dual PCi, a single PC+, a single PC-Ultra, a PB2-ISD, or a PB2+.

    http://www.harman.com/wp/index.jsp?articleId=1003

    http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/Loudspeakers&RoomsPt3.pdf

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  5. Ferdinand*T

    Ferdinand*T Second Unit

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    Thanks Ed you've been very insightful. Decisions decisions. From a cost effective stand point getting a second 20-39PCi seems to be the way to go. Its still tough to say. I would go with a PC-Ultra or a PB2+ if there was a pretty good improvement over duals but I'm not sure if this would or wouldn't.
     
  6. ScottCarr

    ScottCarr Second Unit

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    As an previous owner of the PB2+ and a current owner of the PCUltra, don't let the single driver of the PCUltra sneak by you.

    There is something about the Ultra driver that is simply awesome. If I had to take the plunge between the PB2+ and the PCUltra it would rpobably be the PB2.

    Knowing the performance and sound of the PCUltra the PB2+ would be a strong second choice.

    scott
     
  7. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    If it were my decision to make, I would go with another 20-39 PCI. This option would give you the headroom/more output you desire and at a reduced cost per db since you already have a 20-39 PCI. As Ed states you could always part them down the road if you should desire? It has been awhile since I have ran dual but I do know that dual should give you all that you are looking for. If not, then I would suggest the PB2+ or the B4+ calibrated at a +6db level then [​IMG] .
     
  8. Ferdinand*T

    Ferdinand*T Second Unit

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    Now what if I got a PC-Ultra or PC+ to go next to my PCi? Would this be a good idea or bad idea? Would the extra power cancel the PCi out or would it be better?
     
  9. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    As long as the cylinders are the same size/tune point, there is no problem.

    The PCi should be calibrated about 4-5 dB lower than the PC+/ PCU so it won't be overdriven at high volumes.
     
  10. Ferdinand*T

    Ferdinand*T Second Unit

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    Its been almost 6 months and I'm still in the same boat as the day I created this thread. I made my decision to sell my SVS 20-39PCi in May to put it towards a PC-Ultra. I sold it for $500 and thats what I had set aside towards the Ultra. Well the very next month I got a speeding ticket with no insurance and there went the $500.

    Well last month my buddy let me borrow his old Cerwin Vega sub which is no SVS by any means but its better than nothing. I really miss my SVS and I can't go that much longer without one. I really wanted to get a PC-Ultra but the way its looking it would be next year before I could get all the money together for one. The main reason is Christmas is coming around in the next few months and having to buy gifts will eat into the budget.

    I did some homework and if I want another SVS relatively soon I could place an order for another PCi at the beginning of next month or I can order a 20-39PC+ at the end of next month. Than if I wanted when the funds permit it to purchase a second SVS next year.

    My assumption is that two PC+'s will out do one PC-Ultra. Am I right or wrong? Second does anyone else have any opinions as to whether two PCi can be equivalent or close to an Ultra. This route would be cheaper than two PC+'s and cost about the same as buying one Ultra. The advantage for me is I could have an SVS in a month and order the second PCi after the holidays.

    I really want an SVS really soon but I also want something as powerful as one PC-Ultra if not more. I know going with the PC+ route is expensive to some of you. Why because I could just purchase the PB2+ but for me I like the sound the cylinder subs provide.

    Please help me decide and thanks for those that will take the time to help me out.
     
  11. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    With respect to tuning and extension, the PB2+ will sound and perform similar to dual 25-31PC+. Provided the box is well designed and free of resonances, the cylinder and box designs (with the same tune and extension) can and will sound almost identical. The 25-31PCi and the PB1-ISD will be hard to tell apart, for example. Ditto for the 25-31PC+ and the PB1+.
     

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