SVGA resolution limit on HDTV

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by schivins, Oct 24, 2002.

  1. schivins

    schivins Auditioning

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    Hello all! I have a PC that I use to output to my RP TV. I use the SVGA output from the main video card and direct it to use this as my primary display. I was running this at 1024X768 on my 50” Toshiba with no problems at all. The desktop looked okay for what it is and I didn’t expect it to be 100%. Now the AVI.s I play through it look wonderful. In full screen mode they look almost DVD quality. I have a bunch of AVI’s/MPG’s of movie previews and snippets etc… that are just nicer on the TV.
    My question is while I ran at 1024X768 on my older 4:3 TV was this too much or just at the limit of the max resolution I should run to a TV? Always at 60Hz.
    Now I just got a new Toshiba 65HDX82 and want to make sure I can run this same display into the new TV. I don’t want to cause it any harm.
    So what are the resolution limits I should be aware of while outputting to a TV from a computer via a SVHS connection? Should I be safe as long as I keep it at a 60HZ refresh rate? Can I stick with the 1024X768 or can I go higher? I won’t as 1024X768 is great but would just like to know. Is it the 1024 or the 768 side that I should worry about more etc… I am just paranoid since I love the new TV and don’t want to do anything to mess it up.
    I know of the warning of outputting from the flat panel connection of the video card (which I have) to the DVI input on the new TV so I won’t do that. They say in the manual not to do that though that would seem to be the best way.
    How about a VGA to component adapter? Would that be a better solution? Again what are the limits I should look for?
    I read the FAQ but ii does not cover this or I didn’t see it. [​IMG]
    Thanks,
    Jace
     
  2. Matt DeVillier

    Matt DeVillier Supporting Actor

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    a VGA->component adapter will give you _significantly_ better results than a crappy s-video connection. S-video is only outputting 640(or 720)x480, no matter what your display is set to, so there's no way to damage the set thru s-video.
     
  3. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Jace,
    At one point you refer to a "SVGA" connection, then later to a "SVHS" connection. I'm assuming you mean S-video?
    If you're coming from the PC via SVIDEO, you are getting a downconverted signal to standard interlaced NTSC not matter how high your desktop resolution is set. The 1024x768 is the VGA output res, as long as you're using Svideo you're no where close to that (in fact, if your old Toshiba 4:3 set was a Standard Definition set it couldn't even come close to touching a true 1024x768 display- which is actually more lines than HDTV! The max that toshiba could resolve would likely be 640x480 interlaced!)
    The only way to get the actual full resolution from the PC to a TV set would be to use the RGB (VGA 15 pin connector) output or DVI output from the card.
    Only HD sets should be used in this way (or projector systems) as they are the only ones with a shot of resolving the resolutions you might throw at it. Understand however, using a HTPC coupled with a projector or HD set in this manner (outputting high resolution signal via the VGA output) is quite common- there are thousands of people who built their whole home theaters around top-muscle PCs (just look to AVS forums insane HTPC section to guage the popularity)!
    If you want to connect the full resolution output from the PC to a HD compatible TV or Projector-- Some TVs feature a DB15 (15pin VGA type) input like a computer monitor, others require a component adaptor. If you choose to go this route- then the resolution settings of the output on your card will actually matter (as oppose to using S-Video where they mean nothing because the card downconverts to NTSC anyway)!
    As far as what your TV can handle- this will vary from set to set. Using some video cards (Radeons for example)- along with a program called powerstrip, you can dial custom resolutions to the pixel and to the .01 of refresh rates- allowing you to locate and dial in the sweet spot for your set. If nothing else- powerstrip and a compatible video card will allow you to set up a basic 1080i output from the PC, which any HDTV should sync to (as the set wouldn't see this as any different from any HD 1080i signal coming from a normal video component).
    You might try so poking around on the AVS forum (www.avsforum.com) to see if anyone has coupled a HTPC with your set in the past- they might have some figures on exactly what rates and resolutions the TV will tolerate- and which it will not, and which look the best.
    But again, the bottom line is that the TV (S-video) output on these cards provides a TV compatible feed- which is 480i- regardless of your desktop settings. The majority of these cards have a $2 circuit to handle this TV send- so most are lower quality than even an entry level DVD player.
    To get real resolution out of you computer to your TV, you must use the VGA or DVI outputs to the set- and use a program like powerstrip to dial the resolution outside of of the standard 1024x768 computer resolutions. Like I said, if nothing else you can use Powerstrip to provide HD standards like 540p, 1080i and 720p if your HD set can sync to these resolutions.
    -V
     
  4. schivins

    schivins Auditioning

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  5. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Not sure the reasoning in this, might be wired differently (?). Again- I would check around- and even ask here or on AVS and see if anyone knows why they say that (for a real reason, or just to avoid people messing around)- and if anyone has done any experimenting.

    Like I said above however- HTPC with powerstrip can be configured to generate a perfect 1080i, 720p or 540p image- so your device would see as any other HD device connected to the system. Even if you didn't tweak resolutions beyond that- you could get really nice scaled DVD to your TV at 720p, and you're not going to touch the picture quality for even twice the price!

    -Vince
     
  6. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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    Vince, what do you use for a projector?

    I'm wishing for a good HT-quality 1280x1024 or 1360x768 projector to hit the magic $5000 US price point...
     
  7. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Max,

    My little work horse NEC LT-150 is still kickin butt for me. I previously had a Sony 1252q CRT unit.

    I'm waiting on a strong 16x9 panel in the ballpark of 1280x720 native (or a 1280x1024 4:3) with strong contrast before I upgrade again. I'm moving west nexy Fall, and will likely move into a smaller place so I'm planning to sell off the LT150 and wait a few years before buying another PJ (figure it'll be 2-3 years before I have the fund to buy another house).

    -Vince
     
  8. peter m. wilson

    peter m. wilson Stunt Coordinator

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    hi Jace,

    That's one rocken tv you've got there, (dvi in and 1600 lines of rez), i have a fully ISF'd (MICHAEL TLV) 2 year old 65h80 and my brother just got the 57" version of yours.

    All i can say about the possibilities of PQ on that set is "YOU AINT SEEN NUTTIN YET".

    Depending on your budget and priorities there are some neat things you can do and some things you should do.
    the first investment should be a full ISF calibration.

    as usual some people who have never seen the before and after tend to marginalize this. DON'T.
    I have another brother who is a special effects guy in the movie industry who has the same set i do. he was very happy with his set right out of the box until he had it isf'd, now he's a firm believer.

    if you want to connect your computer using the dvi input, thats fine but if you want to upconvert a copy protected dvd to a higher rez than 720x480 the dvi input is hdcp compliant therefore (i don't have it on my set)it will either dnrez or it won't work at all.

    i have the ATI aiw8500dv and the component dongle (goes with 8500 series only) as well as a keydigital svga to component transcoder which from what i've heard works the best with tosh tv's. ( a transcoder does not invoke hdcp, the dongle does)

    Now if you really want tobe cutting edge IMMERSIVE makes a pci slot card that is a hardware video scaler, $895 us.
    this card works with outboard equipment only, ie: dvd,vcr,sat or cable box. it allows you to upconvert to any rez that your display can handle (projector owners love it).
    the reason i got it is because as you may have already noticed regular ntsc doesn't look too good on a 65 incher, whether it's cable or satelite. so this card called the HOLOGRAPH 3D can scale regular tv to 1920x1080i on our sets. it makes dvd's look like highdef.
    the HOLO needs a vid card like the ati that has 10bit dac's. it also uses Winxp or Me.

    anyway if i haven't spent enough of YOUR MONEY yet, come on back and i'll give you some more ideas.

    have fun,
    peter m.
     
  9. schivins

    schivins Auditioning

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