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Survivor Caramoan (season 26) - Fans vs. "Favorites" (1 Viewer)

mattCR

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DaveHof2 said:
Out of respect for those who haven't watched yet I won't go into specifics on tonight's episode, but I will say that was one of the coldest, most heartless things I've ever seen on this or any reality TV series.
Completely agree. Absolutely cold. And, frankly, the argument for doing it was stupid.. I await a very bitter jury member later..
 

Mike Frezon

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DaveHof2 said:
Out of respect for those who haven't watched yet I won't go into specifics on tonight's episode, but I will say that was one of the coldest, most heartless things I've ever seen on this or any reality TV series.
mattCR said:
Completely agree. Absolutely cold. And, frankly, the argument for doing it was stupid.. I await a very bitter jury member later..
I dunno. It's something we've seen done many times before. I think what makes this one so "cold" is Brenda's honest reaction to it and letting them know how much it "hurt her" that Dawn (especially), Cochrane & Sherri would turn on her.

But what happened here is not much different from any other blindside we've seen in Survivor history. I bet Andrea wouldn't see it as being any colder or harsher than how she got kicked out.

The difference here was...Brenda cried.

And probably a lot of guys watching get angry whenever a woman is made to cry.
 

Mike Frezon

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Another thing was that if that group didn't vote Brenda off, she probably would have won. Whenever the topic would come up for discussion (by Andrea or Cochrane or whomever), the reasoning was always..."Brenda never ticked anyone off. Everyone likes her. She's got mad social skills."

Cochrane knew that even with his underdog status he wouldn't be able to beat Brenda in a final three.

So that makes it good game play. Except that she sobbed on the way out and through her confessional.

it will be interesting to see the reaction of the remaining players back at camp at the beginning of Sunday's finale.
 

Patrick Sun

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The sobbing and crying just shows how invested she was in the game, and the true expression of being betrayed by her 'allies". That's the human element, the hurt feelings, that come into play in this game. We rarely see it so rawly display in the after-show quickie reaction after 13 years, that's why it played out so differently, especially to old-time viewers like me, and provokes such a strong reaction through the viewership. The pragmatic thing (if you're at tribal council) is to expect the worst, the blindside, but until it finally happens, there's no way to truly brace for it if your trust has been so totally destroyed by your alliance.

It's why there's no criteria for how a jury member should vote. I don't mind the butt-hurt vote. That's why it's so damn hard to win this game, The eventual winner has to toe the line between being a total gameplay prick, and avoiding as much "blood on thy hands" while escaping each and every tribal council (and being partially responsible for sending most of the merged players to the jury box) until the final tribal council. Most good players are strong in one of the 3 areas, but not in all three areas (outwit, outplay, outlast), and being seen as super-sympathetic to the jury is never a good quality to have in your tribe as the numbers dwindle, so how do you avoid that sort of target? Good luck, it's the hardest thing to do, be thought of as being perfectly copacetic with the jury, while also maintaining membership and game relationships in an alliance with the numbers to get to the end.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Just finished watching last night's broadcast.
Wow. I am furious. What a horrible thing to
do to Brenda after she sacrificed her reward.

Shame on Dawn is especially right!

I am trying to look at this as a game. Yes,
Brenda probably had the best chance to making
to the end amongst the cast of losers that are left.
But after her honesty and generosity, she deserved
another week. She gave up time with her father and
a wonderful afternoon picnic to ensure that 4 of her
teammates were able to have that opportunity.

To blindside her like that was unforgivable.

Dawn and Cochran need to go. Whomever is left,
I have no interest in seeing win but I suppose someone
must.
 

Sam Posten

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It's survivor guys, why are ya all so surprised? You didn't think the squeaky clean player could win, did you? That's antithetical to everything about the game. The best part about this vote is that Cochrane finally showed he has what it takes to win it all.

I thought it was worse for the producers to screw the other person picked to get reward, in this case Dawn. Not that I want to see Dawn succeed but she got hosed by the tug-at-your-guts call Brenda had to make.
 

Ronald Epstein

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To win a challenge and then be placed in a no-win situation was not
fair to Brenda at all, I agree.

She would not have won either way. If she remained selfish and took
the reward for Dawn and herself then everyone would have retaliated
and she would have been voted out. At the same time, you saw what
happens when she took the unselfish route.

If Dawn had not won immunity, perhaps it would have been her voted
out this week. But maybe the best way to look at it is that it was Brenda's
time no matter what the circumstances.

Just bothers me that her teammates couldn't have waited another week.

I think we are all in agreement that Dawn cannot win this.
 

DaveHof2

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If they had taken Eddie out as was originally planned, and then turned on Brenda at the next Tribal, I would not have an issue with it, because it's inevitable at some point for an alliance to start voting each other out. But to make that move when they did, keeping useless Eddie around another week over a friend and ally that sacrificed her family time for the other members of the tribe – that was inexcusable. Yes, they also voted out Andrea ahead of Eddie, but she brought that on herself by planning her own blind side. Brenda did not deserve that. I hope she verbally eviscerates Dawn at the final Tribal.
 

mattCR

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I kept thinking I wondered more about dawn buffaloing her with the promise to vote out eddy in the immunity challenge.
 

David Weicker

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What bothered me the most is that not only didn't they show Dawn crying after the vote, she was grinning. I mean, this is a person who turns on the waterworks at the drop of a leaf, yet this didn't?
 

Mike Frezon

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Ronald Epstein said:
Just finished watching last night's broadcast.
Wow. I am furious. What a horrible thing to
do to Brenda after she sacrificed her reward.

Shame on Dawn is especially right!

I am trying to look at this as a game. Yes,
Brenda probably had the best chance to making
to the end amongst the cast of losers that are left.
But after her honesty and generosity, she deserved
another week. She gave up time with her father and
a wonderful afternoon picnic to ensure that 4 of her
teammates were able to have that opportunity.

To blindside her like that was unforgivable.
But that's the game. Blindisides like that are actually completely forgiveable.

Brenda was savvy enough to realize (as she explained to Dawn after allowing the others the time with their loved ones) that there was only four days left to the game and that they would each have all the time they would ever want with their own loved ones in a few days time.

But Brenda was not savvy enough to realize that good-will doesn't buy your future in the game. Cochrane made exactly the move he needed to make to win the game. At this point they are all looking at final three and who are the best players to be there with in terms of jury make-up. Brenda (and Andrea and a long list of other majority alliance players across Survivor's many seasons) should have been a little more aware that their life in the game is tenuous at best--especially when the opposite seems true.

By her nature, Brenda is a sympathetic character. She is nice and everyone liked her. Because of those very qualities, she was the biggest threat to win the game.

The very same fate was handed to Philip a few weeks ago but because of his abrasive personality, cheers were heard throughout the land when his alliance (many of the same people) turned on him.
 

David Weicker

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Except Philip's ousting wasn't a blindside by his alliance. Only Erik (who was vocal in his dislike of Philip) voted against him. The other votes came from outside his alliance (with help from HIIs).
 

Mike Frezon

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That is completely right. I stand corrected.

Phillip was the wrong choice to make to argue my case. But there are many other examples (of majority alliance members blindsided by their own) from which to choose.
 

Stan

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That was cold and heartless. I know Survivor is famous for these kinds of things, but this one just came off as especially mean, particularly after Brenda's reward giveaway.

I just picture them all chowing down, enjoying things, thinking to themselves, thanks sucker, you're out of here.
 

ChristopherG

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Mike Frezon said:
But that's the game. Blindisides like that are actually completely forgiveable.

Brenda was savvy enough to realize (as she explained to Dawn after allowing the others the time with their loved ones) that there was only four days left to the game and that they would each have all the time they would ever want with their own loved ones in a few days time.

But Brenda was not savvy enough to realize that good-will doesn't buy your future in the game. Cochrane made exactly the move he needed to make to win the game. At this point they are all looking at final three and who are the best players to be there with in terms of jury make-up. Brenda (and Andrea and a long list of other majority alliance players across Survivor's many seasons) should have been a little more aware that their life in the game is tenuous at best--especially when the opposite seems true.

By her nature, Brenda is a sympathetic character. She is nice and everyone liked her. Because of those very qualities, she was the biggest threat to win the game.

The very same fate was handed to Philip a few weeks ago but because of his abrasive personality, cheers were heard throughout the land when his alliance (many of the same people) turned on him.
I couldn't disagree with you more. Forgivable? No. Game or not at the end of the day you need to look at yourself in the mirror. I am kind of surprised that you can accept so easily such a callous move. This is one episode of survivor that really left a horrible feeling and I have been a fan since day 1. That was a bullshit move.
 

Mike Frezon

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But Christopher, it IS just a game.

It wasn't nice what they did. But it was excellent gameplay.

You wouldn't want people to treat Brenda like that in real life, but Survivor isn't real life. It is an artifice. A game.

Brenda made a big sacrifice for her community which repaid her hours later by turning on her. In real life that would be horrible. But this was an episode of Survivor. Brenda's decision to give the others their time with the loved ones was a game calculation on its own! She did it to curry favor and to perpetuate her position as a nice person within the community. She said as much to Dawn. The group's response was merely a game calculation in return that, if allowed to go to the end, Brenda would win--so we need to get rid of her.

I think major credit needs to go to the producers for setting up such a difficult emotional decision that obviously pulled-in the audience to such a level that there would be so much empathy for one of the cast.

The editors also really set-up for us over the season the Dawn/Brenda relationship (especially the finding of the dentures)...helping to put an exclamation point on Dawn's betrayal. The show hasn't had an episode this compelling for quite a while. But I still posit that it's no different from the same alliance turning on Andrea the week before or any of the other blindsides that have taken place over the years. This one just "hurt" more because of the sympathy extended by the audience towards a seemingly nice person.
 

DaveHof2

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Mike, I've made similar arguments myself, particularly in the first two Russell Hantz seasons. I thought he played an amazing game and deserved to win at least one of them because he so clearly outplayed his competition. Those who held an opposing viewpoint argued that he did not deserve a victory because he didn't play a social game, and was too vicious and cut-throat, which alienated anyone that would cast a vote for him.

So if it's far to crucify Hantz for being such a (fill in your own expletive here), why is it not fair to put Cochrane and Dawn in that same category? Why is it a good move in their case, and a rotten move when Russell engineered the ousters of people who were much kinder and more attractive than he was?

If Cochrane is rewarded for his cruelty with a million bucks, that will be hypocrisy of the highest order.
 

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