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Survivor Caramoan (season 26) - Fans vs. "Favorites" (1 Viewer)

Paul D G

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Early in the episode a group was discussing who to vote out next. Cochrane's name came up. Does anyone remember who said it? If it were Brenda, by chance, Cochrane's move to oust her is perfectly logical - her or me.

Everyone keeps saying Eddie is a threat in challenges - but is he really? I might be wrong, but I don't think he's come close to winning immunity.
 

ChristopherG

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Mike Frezon said:
But Christopher, it IS just a game.

It wasn't nice what they did. But it was excellent gameplay.

You wouldn't want people to treat Brenda like that in real life, but Survivor isn't real life. It is an artifice. A game.

Brenda made a big sacrifice for her community which repaid her hours later by turning on her. In real life that would be horrible. But this was an episode of Survivor. Brenda's decision to give the others their time with the loved ones was a game calculation on its own! She did it to curry favor and to perpetuate her position as a nice person within the community. She said as much to Dawn. The group's response was merely a game calculation in return that, if allowed to go to the end, Brenda would win--so we need to get rid of her.

I think major credit needs to go to the producers for setting up such a difficult emotional decision that obviously pulled-in the audience to such a level that there would be so much empathy for one of the cast.

The editors also really set-up for us over the season the Dawn/Brenda relationship (especially the finding of the dentures)...helping to put an exclamation point on Dawn's betrayal. The show hasn't had an episode this compelling for quite a while. But I still posit that it's no different from the same alliance turning on Andrea the week before or any of the other blindsides that have taken place over the years. This one just "hurt" more because of the sympathy extended by the audience towards a seemingly nice person.
I believe I stated "game or not". Excellent game play by who is yet to be determined. I would be shocked to see a winning vote for Dawn at final tribal council so probably not for her. I won't excuse repellent behavior just because it's a game...
 

Ronald Epstein

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This will be my final thoughts on the subject as I don't
want to keep beating the same drum. After all, there is
a big divide in opinion here, and frankly, I truly see and
respect those that look at this from the game perspective.

I have to agree what was done was repellent behavior.
Game or not, you are dealing with an individual who has
feelings. Brenda gave up her chance to spend time with
her father in order to give that opportunity to 4 other teammates.
I think, if Brenda were to be eliminated, perhaps it could
have been delayed.

But, yes, she was a huge threat based on here likeability.
And, yes, who knows if she would have won immunity next
week and moved on to the final 3 because she was not taken
out at the most opportune moment.

It just leaves a really sour taste in my mouth. I dislike all the
remaining members. None of them deserves to win.

I suppose, in the end, you have to be comfortable enough
to be able to live with yourself after betraying someone in that
fashion.
 

Mike Frezon

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I'm not seeing where those two situations (blindsiding Brenda and Russell Hantzs' game play) are contradictory.

Russell DID display some amazing gameplay. I don't think anyone can argue that he raised the bar for how to play an aggressive game of Survivor. He was a gamechanger, for sure. But he WAS also criticized for lacking a good social game...which came back to bite him at the end when you need to be able to curry favor with the jury.

All of what we're talking about here is what makes Survivor so compelling. You need to keep yourself alive in the game while maneuvering the ousting of the others in such a way that will still allow you to be able to garner their votes at the end...all while not getting stung by a jellyfish or falling into a fire. :biggrin: All the players are scratching and clawing to make it to the next tribal council.

Cochran and Dawn realized that they wouldn't be able to have a chance if either was in the final with Brenda and took the only survival move they could if they were to stand a chance of winning. From some of the interview clips they have shown us from Dawn she is seriously trying to win this thing (and we know how much Cochran wants to win it). Brenda really made a major tactical mistake by not running through all the scenarios of all those remaining in the game.

What would you have Dawn & Cochran do? Say to themselves, "well, we know we can't beat Brenda in the final, but since she's so nice we'll just roll over and let the cards fall where they may. At this point, they've all got to be dreaming about winning that million dollars.

If you want to compare Cochran & Dawn to Hantz I guess you could say that they are all ruthless in terms of tricking people and getting them voted out. But I also know which of the three I'd rather share a cup of coffee with. ;) Hantz was criticized most loudly for not having a social game and being able to garner votes. I'd dare say that Dawn & Cochran (especially Cochran) would get plenty of votes from a jury if they make it to the final three.

===========

EDIT:

I see that I crossed posts with Ron. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse either.

I just think there was a major confluence of events which lead to a momentous move in the game and, at the same time, created a great deal of sympathy for Brenda. And it serves as a sparkling example of why the show has been so popular for so long.
 

Charlie Campisi

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Mike Frezon said:
I think major credit needs to go to the producers for setting up such a difficult emotional decision that obviously pulled-in the audience to such a level that there would be so much empathy for one of the cast.
I was sad to see Brenda go. She was not nearly so likable in her first season, but was firing on all cylinders this season. You guys have pretty much commented on all of the factors at play in the TC blindside. The one item not mentioned so far is that Brenda said in her confessional that she threw the immunity challenge to Dawn to help Dawn feel better. Brenda even did that in a likable way. She didn't say that she would have won. She just said she would have hung on a lot longer had Eddie not fallen out first. Modest, but confident.

Commenting on Mike's credit to the producers -- how long is it before players realize that some of the reward challenges are not worth winning? They'd have the difficulty of picking which ones are most likely to end badly for the winner, but any of the excursion, or excursion with a loved one, challenges always seem to come with a choice of who gets to tag along. And those rarely end well for the winner.

Finally, what started out as a dud of a season has picked up. The posts here have certainly been more frequent and more lively in the last several weeks. No matter how bad the cast, the game concept (almost) always makes for compelling tv.
 

Mike Frezon

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Here's Dalton Ross's take (from Entertainment Weekly) on this episode. He has been covering the Survivor beat for years.

Here's the first section:
“Four days from now we’re going to have big smiles on our faces. I guarantee you that.” — Brenda Lowe
Whoops! This once again proves that unless your name is Joe Willie Namath, you have no business guaranteeing anything in life. Unfortunately for her, Brenda’s guarantee blew up in her face.


I know what some of you out there are saying:

“It’s so unfair what they did to poor Brenda! Voting her out after she sacrificed her own visit with her dad so that other people in the tribe could hang out with their loved ones.”

“I can’t believe what a backstabber that two-faced Dawn is! Getting rid of Brenda after she picked her to join in the loved ones visit AND found her missing teeth!”

“These people are monsters! Brenda was the only likable one left and I am so done!”

“OMG, Malcolm is soooooo hot!” (Since that’s what half of the Survivor audience seems to be saying at all times no matter what is going on.)

To those people, I say this: Brenda has no one to blame for getting voted out but herself. I have said it before and I will say it again. NEVER WIN THE LOVED ONES CHALLENGE! All it does is lead to problems. You either piss people off that you do not select to join you on the reward — who will then vote you off or not give you their vote at the final Tribal — or you sacrifice your own loved ones visit so that others can enjoy theirs, which makes you too likable to bring to the end. This is the very definition of a paradoxical no-win scenario.

So Brenda can cry all she wants, but there’s a reason I’ve hammered this point home over the years. And yet they never listen. The second Jeff Probst offered her that lose-lose choice to either screw her tribemates over or do them an incredible favor, her game was effectively over. But she would not have put herself in that position if she had just let someone else win instead.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Yuh know what....

As much as I dislike the remaining players in this game and
what they did to Brenda, I can't help but agree with Dalton Ross's
point.

He's right -- you don't want to win these loved ones challenge.
I have yet to see an instance where the winner comes out ahead.
 

Stan

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Eddie is the only likeable person left in the competition and other than Erik, doesn't have much of challenge physically. At one time I was rooting for Dawn, but no longer.

Eddie will need to win immunity to stay in this, but I'd like to see him take home the prize. True underdog, nice decent guy, I think he'd take every vote if he makes it to the end.

Dawn could make it to the end, but I see her kind of like Russell Hantz, sitting there all smug and smiling, yet not getting a single vote for her at the end.

The only thing that worries me is several of the past few challenges have been very "female" oriented. Balancing over the water with their arms behind them and several others, women almost always win these.

Hopefully the next challenges are more gender neutral and give everybody a fair chance.
 

Patrick Sun

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Wow, that last tribal question session between Brenda and Dawn was so uncomfortable TV viewing, but they needed to hash it out.

Now I want to know if Brenda was preggers while she was playing the game. That's sort of craziness in itself. If it was really almost 9 months ago, that'd mean they finished filming in August last year.
 

Mike Frezon

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Patrick Sun said:
Now I want to know if Brenda was preggers while she was playing the game. That's sort of craziness in itself. If it was really almost 9 months ago, that'd mean they finished filming in August last year.
Get this, Patrick. Wikipedia says they wrapped filming in June 2012. :eek:

I had to check it out...as I was trying to figure out that math, too.
 

DaveHof2

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Now that it's over, I don't think Caramoan rates higher than a C+. The first half of the season was dominated by the obnoxious antics of Brandon, Shemar and Phillip. Then they had an excellent run of shows with a few great twists and Tribal blindsides, but the ending left a bad aftertaste. Didn't like how Brenda went out, didn't like Dawn at all, and didn't like Cochrane's cocky attitude, bragging about winning challenges when half the time he had a built-in advantage. He was clearly the most deserving of the final three but that's not saying much. And the Reunion show was horrible - why are they showing Hatch, Rudy and Boston Rob instead of hearing from the people who played this season?

However, I am tempted to raise the grade to a 'B' just for Eddie's plan to use a million bucks on a dog rescue business that's also a bar.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Managed to watch the show this morning without any spoilers beforehand.

Well....it is what it is.

SPOILERS AHEAD

Going into the start of the 3-hour finale, I sort of figured Woody Allen would
win this season, however having to pick the best of the worst left, Erik seemed
to be the only choice. Imagine how disappointed I was that 5 minutes into the
game he was gone.

Tribal council was highly entertaining for the brutal honesty that was shown
by the judges. It's true -- Sherri had no right even being in the final three and
somehow was just carried there. Not to say that Dawn or Cochran belonged
there, either.

Dawn came off as a total phony during tribal, smiling through the whole process
while her teammates essentially called her a backstabber.

Seemed to me that, reading the results at the reunion show, Cochran probably
was the unanimous vote from everyone. Jeff didn't bring anyone else's name
into play, so I am assuming everyone voted for him. Really, there was no other
way to go. Out of the final three, like him or not, he deserved to win. After all,
he won several immunity challenges towards the end of the game.

Agree with Dave that the reunion show really didn't concentrate on talking with
everyone. Was the entire cast even there? I didn't notice Francesca, Laura, Matt,
and Shamar. Though nobody wanted to hear from Brandon, I am surprised they
didn't bring him on stage just for entertainment value. Is this the first time that the
entire cast wasn't brought on stage?

Wild to hear that the show actually wrapped a year ago. That's wild to find how
much time is put between filming and reunion.

Looking forward to another season of Survivor as long as they concentrate on
bringing interesting people aboard that aren't there to make stars of themselves
(such as Philip, Brandon, Russell). I also hope that no-one is considering bringing
back Colton.
 

Hanson

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Apparently, Brandon made public threats of physical violence towards Phillip and was banned from the show. This was not addressed by Jeff at all.

They changed the format up this year and seated everyone who didn't make the jury in the audience instead of on the stage. It made it less hectic and concentrated on the players who had more face time than others.
 

NolanJ

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I agree with the reunion being kind of boring. For whatever reason, in seasons past it seemed like they spent a lot more time talking with the jury members. I don't think they had any dialog at all from Sherri.

I also am glad Sherri put Erik in his place. He had no business treating her with such disrespect. If you aren't going to vote for somebody, why even bother speaking to them.

I'm very happy Cochran won, and was my favorite since the beginning. He played a great game and even if Erik or Eddie had made the final, I think he was deserving. What did Eddie do to deserve a victory? What did Erik do? Cochran was very smart in his choices and played a great strategic game. I also thought he was pretty likeable.

I'm surprised they didn't pan out to show Dawn's 6 children in the audience. I'm also surprised they didn't spend more time discussing conflicts between tribe members (they blew their perpetual load on the Dawn/Brenda thing). And by the way, why does Dawn apologize to Brenda when she said time and again "I want to own it, I played the game to win." That kind of wishy-washy, ingenuine attitude will always put you in a losing position.

As for Brenda, she almost seemed polar opposite from her first time playing. She was much friendlier and kind and loyal - but it was a good move to vote her out. Especially for Cochran - because Cochran very likely would have been gone the next week if Brenda stayed. But I do think Dawn owed Brenda for what she did for her (teeth and other).

Russell Hantz is still best to ever play :) - his loss in his first season is a big tragedy.
 

Sam Posten

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I think you misspelled Rupert when you said Russell =)

Anyway, stoked to see Cochrane win it, he's been my choice both seasons. Good for him.

Has there EVER been a unanimous winner before? THAT is something!
 

Hanson

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The first unanimous winner I can recall was JT, but I feel like there was one before that.

Update: Earl was the first to win unanimously, sweeping all the votes against Dreamz and Casssandra. So the list is Earl JT, and now Cochrane.
 

Sam Posten

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Hanson said:
The first unanimous winner I can recall was JT, but I feel like there was one before that.

Update: Earl was the first to win unanimously, sweeping all the votes against Dreamz and Casssandra. So the list is Earl JT, and now Cochrane.
Cool, thanks. Still impressive!
 

Mike Frezon

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Yeah. The reunion show bit.

What they should realize is that the audience--who just tuned in to watch a 2-hour finale of a show which airs on a different night than the regular schedule--is really fervent and vested in the season which just concluded.

We really didn't need to see Mariano shill his book or an uncomfortable interview with a pre-teen girl about why "Malcolm connects with kids." There was a ton of content about this season we would have loved to hear about and will now have to scour the blogs to find out about. I appreciated they, at least, touched on the question of why Malcolm didn't search for the HII while Andrea was watching him.

Don't hide the non-jury cast in the audience. We want to hear/see what's up with them...even if they don't get a chance to open their mouth.

And while I "get" the fact that they show is probably a bit embarrassed by their original decision to bring back Brandon Hantz...it is hard to believe they completely didn't mention him and let us know of his status.

Brandon was banned for threatening physical violence to Philip? They could've had Jeff explain that in a palatable way. But it's never a good idea to ignore the 600 pound gorilla in the room.
 

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