SURVEY: The most undeservingly "harrassed" audio company? (1 Viewer)

[Arnel Enero]

Different people, different opinions... but there seems to be certain audio companies that are very often not appreciated (to say the least) by many people (not necessarily the majority), especially in forums such as this, even if professional reviewers actually rank them among the best out there.

I want to know which do you think among these "harrassed" but actually truely-audiophile companies don't deserve the negative consumer acceptance they get.

My vote goes to:

Speakers: B&W (there's just too much anti-B&W guys out there)
Electronics: Krell (except maybe for their bloated prices, to which I'm also against)

 

[rodneyH]

I would agree with the B&W comment, it reminds me sort of in the 90s when EVERY auto company would say what 1 catagory they were better then Mercedes Benz in, and they would all compare. Ha, when you have the quality and sales, everybody shoots for the top.

I would say Bose gets the most, but deservadly so.

 

[DanaA]

I've noticed that there is a lot of nose raising at high-end dealers about products that they don't carry or know little about. It always seems that they carry the only good lines of equipment made. Companies I've seen put down include Parasound, B&W, Rotel, MacIntosh, and on and on.

Then, there are the chains which are another matter. I went into a Good Guys and was asking about pre/pros. I was told by the sales lady that Good Guys carries the best components period that are available. She said that is where all the people in the entertainment industry buy their gear and that that was that. If I wanted the best, Good Guys was the ONLY place to sell it. I would say that what she said might well hold true of the chains in the Northern California area I live in.

 

[John Garcia]

I was told by the sales lady that Good Guys carries the best components period that are available. She said that is where all the people in the entertainment industry buy their gear and that that was that. If I wanted the best, Good Guys was the ONLY place to sell it.

LMAO! I would have laughed in her face and walked away. She obviously underestimated a knowledgeable consumer. She has either been brainwashed very well or is simply ignorant.
I was in GG not too long ago looking for some cheap speakers for a friend. They had Energy on sale, and I said "I am not a fan of Energy, a bit too bright for this application", to which I got looks from two salespeople like I was insane. Then they asked what I owned. I said Paradigm. One had never heard of them, the other said "very nice", but apparently didn't really know much about them either.
I'd agree about B&W, however they seem to be held in fairly high regard on this forum. I've been a fan of the CDM line for a long time. Some of my favorite speakers. I think it's some of the stores that cause B&W problems. Too many places I've been to that carry B&W are far too "holier than thou", snobby.

 

[EricHaas]

LOL at that BB story. A few months ago I was in a BB looking for a cheap bedroom DVD player. I overheard this salesperson talking to another prospective customer. The customer said, "I have heard it is important to have 'Dobly Digital' sound. This DVD player says it has Dobly Digital. Does that mean if I buy the DVD player I don't need to buy anything else to get Dolby?" To which the clerk stated: "Yep. That's right. This one has an on-board decoder. That mean's you just plug it in to your TV and you have Dobly Digital." A little later, I explained to the guy that he had to get a receiver and some speakers if he wanted surround sound...

This poll raises an interesting point - very few brands of equipment are really trashed here, at least not on a consistent basis. The only brand that gets trashed is Bose, and deservedly so because it is marketed and priced like audiophile gear but doesn't sound like it. Even the really cheap crappy stuff gets left alone because it has the virtue of being appropriately priced. I would actually be more comfortable if there were *more* critical commentary here to show that people here aren't like those magazine critics who have nothing bad to say and hence seem quite untrustworthy.

 

[Ned]

John- Us B+W owners are holier than thou (j/k alert)

 

[Walt N]

Legacy, Red Rose, Talon, VMPS, nOrh, Klipsch, Carver/Sunfire, Paradigm, these companies all seem to have taken more than the usual share of beatings over the years. Not necessarily here, but among certain factions of the audio community. All of these companies have their loyal advocates as well.

 

[Matt Jesty]

I would state that most of the bashing I've seen is in response to OVERLY hyped product...Bose is certainly an example of this ,but B&W is also a VERY hyped product (but by no means a bad product) ALSO , add the Outlaw bashing to this list ;while not a bad product, not the "second comming" that was HYPED....
What amazes me more are the products that don't claim to be the "best thing since sliced bread" but while quite worth their price to many consumers, are bashed...Metal domes, Horns, Small ENCLOSURE SUBS, ETC....

 

[Mark Russ]

I would say Polk Audio. They just seem to to not get much respect even though they put out good (if not great) products, especially within their price ranges.
Klipsch is a company that is either loved or hated, with not much middle ground in between (sort of like the rock band KISS).

 

[Evan S]

A lot of it is stereotypical if you asked me. It's not so much about the quality of the product or how it's priced, but WHERE it's sold. You wouldn't believe how many people in the audiophile community who wouldn't purchase gear from a company which is being sold in the mass market retailers (Best Buy, Circuit City, Good Guys, etc.).

I'll admit, I'm one of them. I know it's blasphemous to say that, but if I see something sold there, I figure the company is after sales first, quality and sound second.

There is a reason those BB guys had never heard of Paradigm...they will never be sold at a BB. That's not to say there isn't any quality things at these stores, because there are...especially DVD players and TV's. But when it comes to speakers, give me the mom and pop local authorized retailer anyday....where service and information and honest suggestions take precidence.

I see Polk speakers sold at these places along with Crutchfield and I immediately think overpriced crap. Again, I know that's stereotypical and I might be missing out on a hidden gem out there, but I'll take my chances.

Klipsch is a company that is either loved or hated, with not much middle ground in between (sort of like the rock band KISS).

Judging by the amount of record sales out there, I would say there are far more people out there who LOVE the band KISS, than hate them. They have more gold albums than any band in the history of rock.

 

[BrianLund]

I would put in a vote for Polk. I am newly in the market for a new HT setup and had been auditioning for a while. Listened to Klipsch (too bright, felt like assault) Mirage (no there, there, too laid back) Paradigm (really nice, smoootthhh) Energy (very nice but a touch muddy.) Then I spoke on the phone to one of the local shops who carried Def Tech thinking I would go listen and he recommended Polk LSi. My immediate reaction was naw, too commercial, too best buyie. I went in to listen and was blown away buy the LSi's. If I'd let my initial, unwarrented prejudice rule I would not have found what I was looking for and the LSi's are that and more.
What has bothered me more than this, though, through out this process is reading countless, relatively useless reviews of speaker systems in magazines and on line. It seems that for the most part everything being made today is absolutly the best there is. I think this plays into the perception that is being expressed here. Namely that companies like Bose routinely get great press, allowing them to splash it all over advertising, but are just as routinely denegrated here and on other forums.
The only person who can really recommend speakers to me is me. I came equiped with two devices for this. First are my ears for listening and second is my brain for interpreting and then making up my mind.
Long post but my vote is for Polk.

 

[James Bergeron]

Brian, I think you just hit the nail on the head! EVERY time a speaker is reviewed it's worth more than it's price, it sounds great and recommended buy! They usually state some flaws (sometimes) but it's still a good buy at the end of the review because they don't want to piss off these companies who advertise.

I stopped reading mags because of this, it's basically everything is great, and the more expensve / more ads from that company in the mag the more great it is!

 

[Keith M.]

EricHaas Quote: "I would actually be more comfortable if there were *more* critical commentary here to show that people here aren't like those magazine critics who have nothing bad to say and hence seem quite untrustworthy. "

I whole heartily agree, but it seems the admins here get quite upset if anyone says anything negative about one of their sponsor branded items. No offense, just my opinion...

This is why the only why to get truely "unbiased" commentary on a product is to test drive it yourself.

Forget the magazines and commercial websites...

 

[Mark Russ]

That may be true about the magazines not wanting to pi$$ off any companies spending adverstising dollars on them by giving a negative review, but yet at the same time, people in forums giving great reviews to products that they have actually bought themselves can hardly be considered unbiased, as no really wants to admit (even to themselves) that they've made a mistake. On the flip side of that, they may also run down equipment that they didn't buy which competes against/with what they did buy.
It's an overused, but true saying- "listen for yourself and go with what you like that sounds good to you" because it's all subjective opinions with no clear cut right or wrong.
For instance, if I like Klipsch, someone else may not. I wasn't particularly inpressed by NHT (not that I'm running them down, the only company I'd run dowm would be Bose), but someone else may like them better. There are a lot of good products by great companies out there right now. It's a good time to be in the market because you just about can't possibly go totally wrong even in spite of yourself.

 

[Shane Martin]

I'm surprised noone has mentioned Outlaw yet.

But then again alot of the outlaw criticism is very valid IMHO.

 

[John Garcia]

Post #8 by Matt Jesty mentioned Outlaw. I don't call anything valid until I hear it for myself. Until then, it's conjecture. Having said that, I still probably won't buy an Outlaw in the near future, not because of complaints, but because I can't easily demo one.

people in forums giving great reviews to products that they have actually bought themselves can hardly be considered unbiased, as no really wants to admit (even to themselves) that they've made a mistake

I completely agree with this statement. I see this a lot, many people feel the need to defend and tout what they bought and everything else is not as good. I definitely like to chime in and recommend the gear I bought because I feel it is damn good stuff. I also list what I compared it to when I bought it and why I made my decision, but it's still just an opinion.

I have loved Paradigm's speakers for nearly 8 yrs, and I felt I wouldn't hear many speakers in the same price ranges that could compete directly with them. 8 yrs ago, that may have been true, but now there are a number of great speaker manufacturers on the market that are good enough at better prices, that if I were to be looking for speakers today, the choice would be MUCH more difficult. I have listened to a few speakers that cost the same or less than I paid for mine, that I can admit I felt were better, even with me being used to the Paradigm "sound".

 

[Doug BW]

Well, I suppose you're right that sometimes people change their mind about the things they've purchased, but what do you think is the most common case?

If someone, say, auditions 20 pairs of speakers (within their price range), of course the speakers they think are the best and the speakers they end up buying are going to be the same speakers.

The fact the speaker the guy owns is also the one he thinks is the best doesn't demonstrate the presence of bias, only that the person made a rational purchasing decision.

I think that when you read an owner's review, what you should look for are the reasons the person likes the product so much. If you read several reviews where the owners seem to like (or dislike) the same qualities in the product, and those qualities are important to you, then this might tell you that this is a product deserving of a closer look by you (or relatively safe to ignore).

 

[Saurav]

I think that when you read an owner's review, what you should look for are the reasons the person likes the product so much. If you read several reviews where the owners seem to like (or dislike) the same qualities in the product, and those qualities are important to you, then this might tell you that this is a product deserving of a closer look by you (or relatively safe to ignore).

Very good point. Something else I find helpful in a review is when someone compares the speakers (that I haven't heard) directly with other speakers (that maybe I have heard). For instance, saying that speaker X has a very smooth treble doesn't tell me much, but saying that it's smoother than Y but not as extended as Z gives me a much better idea. Of course, that's assuming I've heard Y and/or Z, but nevertheless, it's better than making positive comments without a frame of reference.

Also, with owner reviews, I think it's relevant to keep an eye on where that owner is coming from - specifically, what other equipment he/she has owned or heard. Like you said, it's great if someone lists the 20 speakers he heard in a particular price range, states which one he preferred, and why. When such a person claims that something is the 'best' available for a given price, that carries much more weight for me than someone who is moving up from a lesser performing class of speakers, and doesn't have much experience with speakers in this price/performance category.

 

[Mark Amayao]

As a GOODGUYS employee I can tell you this in their defense.
one of The Goodguys' primary goals is to differentiate itself from most of the other large chains out there.

Whatever unfortunate experiences customers have had I can tell you mainly its due to holes in its hiring process. Goodguys provides thorough training ... (spends a lot of money doing so) ... and encourages sales assoc. to learn other products. Knowledge is key, and Goodguys is thoroughly aware of us folks who are out here that know better. I would assume Goodguys doesnt carry many of the better products out there mainly because they would introduce too high of a demand that some names couldnt keep up with in supply. At least that would be the impression that I have being with them thus far.

Bein from california, and working in a Oregon Goodguys I can tell you that the problems are concentrated in one area ... you wouldnt believe the horror stories Ive heard. Oregon and Washington stores Im sure youd just love to walk into. Vendors love coming up here to train us cause we devour what they provide.

Bein from California Im down there all the time and when i walk into a goodguys store its totally different ... I can tell you there is always a couple diamonds in the rough. There are also those that dont know jack but just produce way too much volume to be deemed despensable. Which is unfortunate ...

I was hired because I had a passion like most of you for the stuff ... and know that the hobby was in my life before goodguys was ... and im one of those folks who feels like some things need to change with them ... and they will soon since northwest trainings will be combined with california trainings ...

I LOVE THIS HOBBY SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH
HAIL HOME THEATER ....... ULTIMATE ESCAPE!!!!!!!

 

[DanaA]

Mark,

I'm curious as to the rumors that Good Guys is experiencing financial woes. Have you heard anything to this effect or is it rumor only?

Sorry for going off topic, but I bought an extended warranty on my big screen Mitsubishi there and wanted to feel secure that they'll be there for some time to come.