1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Surge Protectors and Amplifiers: Do they alter amp performance?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by John Morris, Jul 9, 2001.

  1. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Does hooking up an amp to a surge protector alter the power that the amp gets so that the tonal quality(or anything else)is changed? I only want surge protection, not a power conditioner.
    Can anyone recommend a 20amp circuit capable (t-plug) surge protector?
    Thanks!
    ------------------
    Take Care,
    merc
     
  2. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    anyone?
     
  3. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  4. Han

    Han Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2001
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've been wondering about this too, since I'm moving towards separates. Going through reviews and forums, all I ever read is controversy. Especially if it involves cleaning up the line as well.
    At this point, I'm assuming that I'll need a Surge Protector or UPS that can handle enough wattage that the amplifier and other components consume. That probably means one for just a five channel amp, and another for all the other components. I'm not even worried about line conditioning. I just want protection without degradation of quality.
     
  5. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Rick: Thanks for the link. I'll call them later today.
    All I really want is a surge protector which doesn't alter the amp output AND will allow the use of a 20 amp plug. These plugs are like the standard 3 prong plugs with one of the spade plugs shaped like a T. Does anyone know where I can buy one of these???
    ------------------
    Take Care,
    merc
     
  6. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  7. Steve_D

    Steve_D Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 1999
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Having just gone through this myself...here's what I've learned.
    Most decent surge protectors are rated at 15 amps / 1875 watts. Most also have some type of EMI/FRI filter. You can find these in the $30-250 (more?) price range.
    Many of them have warraties for protected equipment...but I've read the warranties and they have tons of loopholes. Also, the top names ($500 and up) typically have no warranty.
    In the end, I bought a Monster HTS2000 due to the 2 "high current" plugs. Can I honestly say I hear a difference? No, but I've just upgraded a lot in my system so subtle differences would be hard to pick up. The noise floor is almost exactly the same as when I had it hooked into a basic $30 strip.
    My video is slightly better...confirmed with a before and after Video Essentials calibration.
    I'm keeping the Monster because I got it for a good price ($135) and it has 12 outlets, but in the end I really don't know if it makes that much of a difference over 2 of the basic strips.
    ------------------
    http://www.sdiver.org
     
  8. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Thank you all very much for your responses!
    John K: The Brickwall 20aud may be the ticket for me. Thanks!
    How do I figure my max power rating for this surge protector? I'd like to plug these amps into it.
    - ATI 2505(20 amp circuit and outlet required)250w X 5 into 8 ohms
    - ATI 1502 - 150w X 2 into 8 ohms
    - Crown K2 - 500w X 2 into 8 ohms
    Are we talking some kind of pro gear to surge protect this amount of current?
    Thanks for your help!
    ------------------
    Take Care,
    merc
     
  9. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not a power expert.
    It looks like you should have two circuits for a margin of error in your system.
    The ATI 2505 alone can chew up just about everything a 20amp circuit can throw at it, and you're adding another 1300w after that. This doesn't even account for ineffeciencies in the amplifiers what you output is less than what you draw.
    Surge protection is a seperate function from power draw BTW.
    Regards,
    ------------------
    John Kotches
    Contributing Writer
    Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
     
  10. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    John K: I spoke to Brickwall and they recommended two units for my amps: the PW2R15 for the K2 + 1502; and the PW2R20 for my 2505. The current circuit that my amps use was originally an electric dryer circuit with a 60 amp(30amp + 30amp) breaker. The wiring is spec'd at least for 30 amps, so I can replace the current 20 amp breaker with a 30 amp breaker and provide the amps with as much power as they might need. I'm probably gonna get the brick wall units since they'll do what I want and cost me less than $400 delivered.
    Thanks for your help!
    ------------------
    Take Care,
    merc
     
  11. Steve_D

    Steve_D Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 1999
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I concur (mostly). With that much power and that much equipment, I'd have a qualified electrician, preferably one with high- end audio experience, come take a look at my requirements. You could also write Vans Evers, Richard Gray, Tice..some of the other higher end manufacturers for their recs. Or Call or write ATI. You've gone far beyond basic surge suppression.
    As for the mostly part, don't amps store energy?...so although they can "only" draw so much they have much more availble for momentary output form their reserves.
    ------------------
    http://www.sdiver.org
     
  12. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Steve: Actually I spoke with Mike P at ATI a few months back and he said that although the 2505 requires a 20 amp circuit, I could probably run TWO 2505s off of a 20 amp circuit as long as I waited a few minutes between turning them each on. As you alluded, the most power an amp will draw is when you first turn it on so it can charge its' caps. I still plan on bumping up my circuit breaker to a 30 amp one so I can turn them on at the same time. And, the original wiring was done by an electrician friend of mine according to spec. Since then, I've replaced a few other circuit breakers and it's pretty easy to do as long as you do it slowly, carefully(stay away from the buss bars in the box) and safely(with the power off).
    ------------------
    Take Care,
    merc
     
  13. John Williams

    John Williams Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    10
    John M,
    That is a lot of equipment off one circuit, even if it is a 20A one.
    If you have the $$$, Cinepro makes a unit called the Power Sequencer 120 which has got to be one of the most overlooked items in higher-end HT.
    Forget battery boxes with cables, conditioners, enhancers and the like. Cinepro's box eats a hard-wired 240v/60A (yikes!) line, and outputs 6 real 120v/20A lines. Due to the high power rating of the incoming feed, each of these 6 output circuits is very "stiff", and won't sag or drop when you max each of them out.
    If I was installing a higher-end HT, I'd put one of these at the top of my list. The only reasons I don't have one is 1) I'm a little tapped out after moving to our new house, and 2) The new place already had 2 x 20A outlets upstairs, so I don't have a need.
    Opinions?
    -John
     
  14. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    John W: as much as I like the idea and the looks of the Power Sequencer 120, it costs $1,000. Maybe when I build my next house and include a dedicated HT, that will be a requirement. As it is, I am using a dedicated circuit which originally was designed and equiped with a 30 amp circuit breaker(half of a 60 amp circuit for an electric clothes dryer). When I changed the dryer to a gas dryer, the circuit was available for my HT rack. I replaced the 60 amp breaker(two connected 30 amp breakers)with a 20 amp breaker and was on my way. I plan on changing the 20 amp breaker back to one of the original 30 amp breakers and ADDing the pair of surge protectors. Thanks for the info on the Cinepro unit... it looks like a gotta have for a dedicated theater.
    ------------------
    Take Care,
    merc
     
  15. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    8,390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i wouldn't think hooking up a (semi-decent) surge-protector should lower the voltage by much, if any? not really sure though...
    also, aren't amplifier/receiver power supplies designed to work within a voltage range (+/- a few volts)...
    sorry, really more questions than answers. let's call this a bump!
    :>)
    ------------------
    You step in the stream,
    But the water has moved on.
    This page is not here.
     
  16. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 1999
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    John,
    Have you looked at the surge protection products from TrippLite? Their Isobar 12/20 looks to have what you want:http://www.tripplite.com/products/surge/surge_description.cfm? family=Rackmount&model=IBAR%2012%2D20%20Ultra
    PCStop.com has it listed for $90 ($199 retail) but unfortunately is out of stock. http://www.pcstop.com/product_detail.asp?ProdID=519272
    The UltraCopy may also fit the bill and has 2 20amp outlets and is a direct plug-in (no cord).http://www.tripplite.com/products/su...AR%20UltraCopy
    It may be worth the wait to save a few hundred $ if you need to order.
    [Edited last by Gil D on July 10, 2001 at 10:05 PM]
     

Share This Page