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Dave H

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I do remember it having some pretty serious color banding. I'm sure that could be improved. But does that merit an upconverted 4K release, or would a new Blu-ray suffice?

I suspect it would be very similar to Star Wars- Attack of the Clones (which was filmed at 1080p) where the UHD BD was just a tad bit better (IMO) in terms of color and looking more solidified.

But I would take a BD re-encode.
 

Josh Steinberg

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The banding in Superman Returns is inherent in the source material and was present in the original 35mm and IMAX engagements. The Blu-ray is an accurate representation of the movie’s appearance.
 

John Dirk

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Thanks Todd but you can't just go around using words like "verisimilitude" and not expect a little reprisal, so here's a virtual wedgy for ya.



As for these films, only the first two are even watchable for me so I'll stick with my DVD's.
 

JoshZ

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I suspect it would be very similar to Star Wars- Attack of the Clones (which was filmed at 1080p) where the UHD BD was just a tad bit better (IMO) in terms of color and looking more solidified.

But I would take a BD re-encode.

The difference is that Attack of the Clones had pretty colorful and contrasty photography, which can take some advantage of HDR and Wide Color Gamut. Superman Returns does not.

The banding in Superman Returns is inherent in the source material and was present in the original 35mm and IMAX engagements. The Blu-ray is an accurate representation of the movie’s appearance.

Yikes, that sucks. The banding on the Blu-ray is pretty bad at times.
 

Josh Steinberg

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It is what it is. I see the job of a Blu-ray or any other home media format as being to faithfully reproduce what the filmmakers intended when the film originally premiered, and to my eyes, the Superman Returns disc is an accurate reproduction of the movie, and therefore, have no issues with it.
 

Rob W

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I really hope Superman Returns doesn’t get lost. It’s obviously not included in this release, despite being a direct continuation of the Donner films. It deserves its own 4k release, and a steelbook too!
My blu-ray steelbook of Superman Returns is now in the 5th slot of the 4K Steelbook box, replacing the Superman Collectibles steelbook which can safely be put aside since it only contains a comic book reproduction, a certificate of authenticity and a booklet.
 
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JoshZ

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It is what it is. I see the job of a Blu-ray or any other home media format as being to faithfully reproduce what the filmmakers intended when the film originally premiered, and to my eyes, the Superman Returns disc is an accurate reproduction of the movie, and therefore, have no issues with it.

I can respect that line of thinking. But I just don't see any point in releasing the movie on 4K UHD when it wouldn't benefit from any aspect of the 4K Ultra HD format.
 

Rob W

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I can respect that line of thinking. But I just don't see any point in releasing the movie on 4K UHD when it wouldn't benefit from any aspect of the 4K Ultra HD format.
I would buy it simply because WB almost always provides an Atmos remix on their blockbuster 4K catalogue titles ( and they're usually very impressive. )
 

Dave H

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The difference is that Attack of the Clones had pretty colorful and contrasty photography, which can take some advantage of HDR and Wide Color Gamut. Superman Returns does not.

I still think 10 bit video and improved H.265 encoding will help the overall image vs an old, low bit 2006 VC-1 encode. However, I doubt a UHD BD will ever happen.

The more I think about it. The Donner Cut was finished in 2K (nearly 1080p) and looks dramatically sharper in many shots upscaled on UHD BD vs the 2006 VC-1 encode.
 
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Todd Erwin

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I still think 10 bit video and improved H.265 encoding will help the overall image vs an old, low bit 2006 VC-1 encode.
The Blu-ray of Superman Returns was made when Warner was releasing on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray, often using the same exact encode on both formats, so I agree that a new AVC 1080p and 4K HEVC encodes would improve the transfer a bit. If memory serves, the BD was restricted to a BD25, so the extra breathing room would help as well, and maybe Warner would actually release the bonus materials in HD as originally promised on the liner notes.
 

Bryan Tuck

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Thanks Lord much appreciated!
Sounds disastrous especially if the S:TM transfer is inferior.

It's not that bad. There are maybe some questionable color grading choices in the Krypton scenes, but it has about all the detail you're going to get out of a negative that was lit the way it was.

Removing the 5.1 track derived from the 70mm sound mix is the real head-scratcher here.
 

Noel Aguirre

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It's not that bad. There are maybe some questionable color grading choices in the Krypton scenes, but it has about all the detail you're going to get out of a negative that was lit the way it was.

Removing the 5.1 track derived from the 70mm sound mix is the real head-scratcher here.
But if the visual’s not as good as the prior 4K blu then I certainly won’t buy it. And I very much appreciate you and Lord Dalek pointing this out as it’s been reviewed saying it’s the exact same transfer/image.
And then for the secondary sound mix fiasco that’s the nail in the coffin for me. I’m glad I bought the earlier version and have the prior bluray boxed set.
One day I hope we get a definitive boxed set.
 

JoshZ

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But if the visual’s not as good as the prior 4K blu then I certainly won’t buy it. And I very much appreciate you and Lord Dalek pointing this out as it’s been reviewed saying it’s the exact same transfer/image.

I don't think they're saying the video on the new disc is inferior to the older disc. Rather, it's the same video on both discs, which is disappointing when rumors had suggested a new remaster is available but wasn't used.
 

Bryan^H

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I don't think they're saying the video on the new disc is inferior to the older disc. Rather, it's the same video on both discs, which is disappointing when rumors had suggested a new remaster is available but wasn't used.
I'm assuming that will be used for a 50th anniversary disc release. If discs are still around.
 

Noel Aguirre

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I don't think they're saying the video on the new disc is inferior to the older disc. Rather, it's the same video on both discs, which is disappointing when rumors had suggested a new remaster is available but wasn't used.
That’s then utterly pathetic. I’ll wait for the 8K LD.
 

yamato72

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I don't think they're saying the video on the new disc is inferior to the older disc. Rather, it's the same video on both discs, which is disappointing when rumors had suggested a new remaster is available but wasn't used.
So it sounds like I did the right thing by purchasing the original UHD of Superman, and furthermore based on the statements above about 1) the S:II Donner Cut and Superman Returns, I can also just stick with my BD copies of those, too.
 

DanH1972

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I do remember it having some pretty serious color banding. I'm sure that could be improved. But does that merit an upconverted 4K release, or would a new Blu-ray suffice?
You also have 10 (or 12 with FEL DV) bit pixel data as well as WCG, higher chroma sampling, and more dynamic range to work with. There is more to 4k discs than just resolution.
 

DanH1972

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It is what it is. I see the job of a Blu-ray or any other home media format as being to faithfully reproduce what the filmmakers intended when the film originally premiered, and to my eyes, the Superman Returns disc is an accurate reproduction of the movie, and therefore, have no issues with it.
Except for the absolutely horrid encoding that a properly compressed HEVC 4k disc would potentially rectify.
 

Josh Steinberg

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If there is indeed absolutely horrible encoding, then absolutely.

I was simply pointing out to my counterpart - he thought the color banding in the Blu-ray was the result of poor encoding, but I saw Superman Returns more times than I should admit in both 35mm and IMAX and that color banding was 100% part of the look of the film on original prints. It may have been a limitation of the then-new digital cameras they used and/or their post-production workflow, but it’s always been there. That wasn’t an issue created by poor home video mastering.
 

Lord Dalek

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Panavision Genesis HD suffered from banding in general. Its also visible on Click and Superbad.

Absolutely terrible camera that couldn't be binned in favor of the Arri Alexa quickly enough.
 

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