Superbit DVDs do not use all the available space - why ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Chris Stone, Oct 27, 2001.

  1. Chris Stone

    Chris Stone Agent

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    checking the allocated disc space on the Superbit DVDs I found out the following
    The Fifth Element 6.92 GB used (7.39 Mbit/s)
    Desperado 6.74 GB used (8.71 Mbit/s)
    Crouching Tiger 6.75 (7.58 Mbit/s)
    anyone know why those titles use the full 7.95 GB available
     
  2. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 1998
    Messages:
    2,343
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Real Name:
    Adam
    If they used all of the space available, they wouldn't be able to offer their upcoming SuperDuperBit titles. [​IMG]
    Adam
     
  3. PhilipG

    PhilipG Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2000
    Messages:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    [​IMG]
    With this much free space, there's no excuse to leave out the trailers!
    Of course, the space will be used up by commentary tracks / isolated scores in future 2-disc SEs.
     
  4. Ash Williams

    Ash Williams Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Superbit Collection is a sham. There is no doubt they were aiming them for the home theater crowd, but they weren't using their heads. There is no reason they couldn't have just released 2-disc sets, one for the film and one for extras. There is virtually no noticeable(at least to me)difference between a Superbit and well transferred disc. Shame on you Columbia.
     
  5. Tom-G

    Tom-G Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2000
    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Real Name:
    Tom G
    Although I'm a big fan of dts, I haven't purchased any of the Superbit titles. I almost purchased The Fifth Element. But, because a full bitrate dts track wasn't used, I'm guessing that it won't be a significant upgrade for me. The original issue has awesome sound despite being "only" Dolby Digital. By not having the Superbit, I could be missing out, but that the chance I'm taking.
    Any word if CTHV will ever use all of the available space?
    ------------------
    As for the bad rap about the characters--hey, I've seen space operas that put their emphasis on human personalities and relationships. They're called "Star Trek" movies. Give me transparent underwater cities and vast hollow senatorial spheres any day. --Roger Ebert on The Phantom Menace
    AIM: Aureus91 / DVDs / ICQ: 58566493
    [Edited last by Tom_G on October 27, 2001 at 07:43 AM]
     
  6. Todd Hochard

    Todd Hochard Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 1999
    Messages:
    2,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  7. ChrisA

    ChrisA Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 1999
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think SUPERBIT DVDs should offer FUll RATE DTS and OFFER EXTRAS ON A SECOND DISC to make everybody happy.
    I still see no VALID reason why that cannot be done. The bandwidth can support full rate DTS and still maintain the same high constant Video Bitrate Superbit DVDs now have.
    I do support the idea of maximum A/V quality, but to be quite frank, we NEED HD-DVD.
    ------------------
    Pictures: The Worm Hole Theater featuring the Black Hole Subs and Death Star Platform
     
  8. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 1998
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jeez, anybody would think people are being forced to buy them.
     
  9. Dharmesh C

    Dharmesh C Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I want a Superbit title, but this is an obvious scam, I wish they'd take heed of this sham and use full bitrate for the next batch. I won't be buying any until they sort this marketing scam out.
    ------------------
    British film-making blows away Hollywood.
    Why? Verisimilitude!
    Superman CINEMA
    http://www.deceptions.net/superman
     
  10. Robert George

    Robert George Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Chris Stone:
    Are you certain the allocated disc space you are quoting is not for video only? The soundtrack data may well not be included in that total.
    ChrisA:
    Superbits are not constant bitrate. They are still variable bitrate MPEG, just like any other DVD, except the average bitrate is higher. Using a 1536 kb/s DTS track would indeed reduce the available headroom to the point that a video stream of this level of quality would be compromised when maximum peaks in video bitrate are required. Also, see my reply above. I am not sure there is really as much left over space as is being surmised. A 1536 DTS track would require double what is already used for the (superfluous) 768 DTS track that is already there.
    As for HD-DVD, complaining about an existing format because it does not offer the theoretical quality of some as yet non-existent format really doesn't make much practical sense. DVD-Video is what we have now, and will have for the foreseeable future. There is no reason we should not strive to get the most out of the existing format that we can.
     
  11. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 1998
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    They are not a scam. There is an improvement in video and audio quality. Whether that is down to increased rates or just a new transfer remains to be seen. They offer higher quality than the original releases (which are still available, btw) for those who want to buy them and who dont necessarily want discs loaded with watch-once extras and shitty animated menus.
    Not every scene will require full video bandwidth all the time. The bitrates quoted above are averages. You're not being forced to buy them and the old versions aren't going anywhere. Try complaining about something that matters.
    ------------------
    "We shall never surrender"
    Winston Churchill.
     
  12. Quint van der Vaart

    Quint van der Vaart Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 25, 2001
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Superbit titles are great discs.
    The picture looks nice and the dts tracks sound great.
    I can't understand what the fuzz is all about I mean it's like Rob said nobody is forcing anyone to buy these !
    But since they sell pretty good I think that more people agree with me that Superbit dvd's are nice additions to your collection.
    Greetz
    ------------------
    There is another world....The DVD WORLD !!
     
  13. Dharmesh C

    Dharmesh C Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Is the difference really noticeable? I hope you guys are not using magnifying glasses to justify these discs [​IMG]
    I'm more conerned about audio, higher bit-rate would make a purchase much sweeter for me, and since these titles are aimed at HT folks, I don't see why full bit-rate isn't implemented on these discs.
    ------------------
    British film-making blows away Hollywood.
    Why? Verisimilitude!
    Superman CINEMA
    http://www.deceptions.net/superman
     
  14. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2000
    Messages:
    5,555
    Likes Received:
    186
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    I know this is off the topic slightly, but has The Patriot been officially announced? This is one title I want to see on SuperBit. I'm a bit wary this wasn't announced with the other two titles the other day.
     
  15. YANG

    YANG Second Unit

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 1999
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "I think SUPERBIT DVDs should offer FUll RATE DTS and OFFER EXTRAS ON A SECOND DISC to make everybody happy."
    I agree,that there should be more bits given to the audio,rather than the video which makes no difference in presentation quality...to me.I have both the first edition and the current DTS re-release,i see not much improvement on with either my 21 inch CTV or 33 inchers...
    CTHV shouldn't had used SUPERBIT as a brand to their DTS re-releases...
    I have to say again,there are other studios had already been releasing DVDs with both DTS5.1 and DD5.1 surround which takes lots of disc space.CTHV's recent move is not surprising at all,they should had done a long time ago...should be more earlier than FOX's full support.
     
  16. Bruce Hedtke

    Bruce Hedtke Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 1999
    Messages:
    2,249
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  17. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 1998
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  18. Martin Fontaine

    Martin Fontaine Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If I remember correctly, the maximum time a Dual-Layered disk can hold is about 4h10m @ 5mbps. So if they put the bitrate (I Mean Total here - Audio+Video+Subs) at the highest possible the drive can read which is I think 9.8Mbps... You get a maximum of roughly 2h10m... If the movie is shorter than that, you cannot use the whole disk space anyway.
    9 800 (Total)
    - 754 (DTS-Audio)
    - 448 (AC3-Audio)
    - 420 (7 Subs Tracks @ ~60kbps each)
    ------
    8 178 Bandwidth left for Video
    Since like someone pointed out before, Video bitrate fluctuates so that is why it sometimes drops to 5-6mbps but maintains a high of 8 whenever needed...
    Not filling the disk on 6th Day, Charlie's Angels and the original Crouching Tiger was on the other hand, UNEXCUSABLE since the bitrate was not maxed out (The 5.1s on CTHD were 384kbps even!)
     
  19. Robert George

    Robert George Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 1997
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
     
  20. Todd Hochard

    Todd Hochard Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 1999
    Messages:
    2,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If throwing extra bits at the video doesn't help, then why would it for audio? Bjoern's website shows the clear difference (pun intended)- show me a dts half vs. full comparison that does the same.
    Didn't think so.
    There called motion PICTURES for a reason.
    Todd
     

Share This Page