superbit dvds... another reason to buy a dvd you already have?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brad_W, Sep 25, 2001.

  1. Brad_W

    Brad_W Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Air Force One (Superbit)
    Bram Stoker's Dracula (Superbit)
    Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Superbit
    Desperado (Superbit
    Fifth Element (Superbit
    Gattaca (Superbit
    Johnny Mnemonic (Superbit
    Patriot (Superbit / 2000
    Superbit 3-Pack 10/9/
    Though there are only a few of these I own and/or want, would it really be worth it to buy them again?
    ------------------
    "I was born to murder the world." -Nix (Lord of Illusions)
    My Home Page http://www.geocities.com/masternix/DVD.html
     
  2. Jim_K

    Jim_K Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,090
    Likes Received:
    2
    I don't think this SUPERBIT idea will fly. In theory superior sound/picture sounds great if its a noticeable difference but they should have done a second disc with SE material. Here's my dilemma:
    DRACULA - Have the present disc. It's barebones but it is very good A/V quality. SE is still rumored so I'll wait and see if that pans out. No sale.
    CTHD - Have it and am very satisfied with it. If I go SUPERBIT I won't miss the english dub but I will miss the nice extras. No sale.
    PATRIOT - Have it and I'm satisfied with it. This has some great extra's including some very good deleted scenes that I'd miss. No sale.
    FIFTH ELEMENT - maybe I'll pick this one up down the road.
    The rest I have no interest in. I really think they made a mistake by not going the 2-disc route.
    Jim
     
  3. GlennH

    GlennH Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 1998
    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    7
    Real Name:
    Glenn
  4. DanR

    DanR Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 1998
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's quite interesting how people have "revolted" against this SuperBit idea, as if CTHV is trying to "pull a fast one" on us.
    If you approach these as bare-bones DTS re-releases with hopefully a marginal increase in picture and sound quality, then you will see that this is not really different than many other re-releases.
    Maybe CTHV was a bit overzealous in their SuperBit claims, but that is certainly not a reason to claim CTHV is trying to push us into buying something to "rip us off" (as many of these type of threads on the internet seem to imply).
    Regards,
    Dan
     
  5. Michael Lee

    Michael Lee Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 1998
    Messages:
    652
    Likes Received:
    0
    I, for one, will not re-purchase these titles in SuperBit. I have repurchased a few titles for SEs and new anamorphic transfers many times in the past, but I am going to pass on these.
     
  6. Scott-C

    Scott-C Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like the concept of the Superbits line, in theory. If I'm honest with myself, I really don't spend a lot of time with the "extras" that come with so many "special" and "collectors" editions anyway. What I really want for my money is the best possible video and audio quality on a DVD (and no pan and scan version!). Reference quality video transfer, DD5.1, DTS, even THX EX/DTS ES Discrete, etc.
    From what I've read so far, the Superbits versions are not a dramatic improvement in the video and audio quality, but rather a small/incremental improvement. If the improvement is obvious, I'd certainly think about repurchasing some of these movies. If it's not, I have a hard time justifying the $$$ in my mind, given I may already own a good transfer that may in fact have some extras (if I ever get around to watching them).
    Seems increases in bit rate don't always equate to increaess in picture/audio quality, and that's the heart of the issue for me.
    Just my $.02.
    ------------------
    Scott
     
  7. Eric_R_C

    Eric_R_C Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2001
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    0
    I, for one, really look forward to all the supplemental material. Based on this list, I would have to make these decisions:
    -Movies I own
    Air Force One - Not a big fan, though my wife likes it. I am already planning on replacing In Line of Fire for new version (read: extra material), and would like to replace Das Boot for new non-flipper (I bought the 4-pak with Perfect Storm)
    Fifth Element - My first DVD (bought it before I got my player!), and I was upset to hear that Region 2(?) version had lots of supplements. If the Region 1 had the same stuff, I would have considered buying the Superbit version. Since I would ONLY get a better picture with nothing else (and I don't have a bad-ass widescreen t.v. to show it off), then I have no reason whatsoever to purchase this.
    -Movies I've seen
    Bram Stoker's Dracula - Not the best interpretation, IMO. Some good stuff, but still lacking. If I were to buy it, I would wait for the rumored SE (supplements)
    Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - Rented. Loved the extra material and "making of". No contest here.
    Desperado - Not a big fan
    Gattaca - Loved it, but would have to see if the original DVD has supplements. This is the only one I'm unsure about.
    Johnny Mnemonic - I don't think the original DVD has supplements, so I would consider buying this one.
    Patriot - Nope, the first has all the supplements. I've rented this one, and it looked and sounded great.
    Obviously, you can see my bias (and don't bother arguing the value of supplements with me, as you will not change my opinion of them. If they're worthless to you, then you don't have to watch them.)
     
  8. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    4,300
    Likes Received:
    40
    I have to shake my head at CTHV on the list of initial titles...crap like Johnny Mnemonic? That's like the Universal Ultimate Edition of Patch Adams. Who the hell cares? Does somebody really buy these things?
    ------------------
    "This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
     
  9. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gattaca's first DVD had almost no supplements to speak of and the Super35 2.40:1 widescreen version was packed onto one side of a DVD-10 (the other side had a bastardized p&s/full frame version), so the SuperBits DTS 5.1 version is the one to get IMHO.
    I truly wish Sony could have had the guts to put only a full bitrate, DTS 24/96 5.1 or 24/48 DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 track and one 192 kilobits/sec DD 2.0 backup track (for spec.) on these discs. Most people with receivers or pre-amps have at least DTS 5.1 and now new equipment is rolling out DTS-ES 6.1 and DTS 24/96 decoding anyway.
    Maybe they can still change their tune with some coaxing.
    Then they could really have said these were SuperBit discs with the best video and audio yet available.
    Dan
    ------------------
    Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!
     
  10. William Ward

    William Ward Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2000
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    1
     
  11. AaronMK

    AaronMK Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 1999
    Messages:
    768
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Real Name:
    Aaron Karp
    I find it strange that people are going to judge quality solely on the bitrate.
    True, all other things being equal, higher bitrates will yield better picture and sound. But bitrate is not close to being the big factor in a quality product.
    The Fifth Element has been said to be a reference quality disc, even by today's standards. It was "crammed" onto a single layer. According to early reviews, the dual-layer superbit version is not that different.
    Saving Private Ryan and The Haunting use half-bitrate DTS tracks. But these are the discs everyone points to when refering to "the reference standard" soundtrack. They don't point some of the others that use full-bitrate DTS tracks.
    The point is that work and effort during authoring and compression are so much more of a factor than the bitrate and space they decide to use.
    I think this idea that bitrate is the most determining factor of quality is flawed logic. This being the idea behind Superbits may be why they are failing to impress.
    ------------------
    My DVD's
    If a movie is not available in OAR, than it might as well not be available at all.
     
  12. Bob_L

    Bob_L Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    1
    Real Name:
    Bob Lindstrom
    "I think this idea that bitrate is the most determining factor of quality is flawed logic."
    No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Aaron.
    It's "MARKETING" logic.
    If you BS them, they will buy.
    ;-)
     
  13. LukeB

    LukeB Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gattaca has deleted scenes, trailers, and a production featurette. Not much, but that disc retails for $8 less than the SuperBits one. You make the call. You can get the current disc now for like $15. Or wait til November (or whenever it's coming) and pay $20-$25 for the SuperBit version sans extras. The current Gattaca looks and sounds pretty dang good, IMO too. So it's not problematic that it's just on one layer.
     
  14. Mike Mallory

    Mike Mallory Agent

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    0
    AaronMK,
    You are so right. In fact, the studios are so busy cramming special features on the discs, they have forgotten about the picture quality. Why is it that "The Fifth Element" is still considered a benchmark of quality? Did it have a lot of special features? No. It didn't have any. Did it have a pan & scan version on the flip side? Yes. So what.
    Having every release of a film commented on by the director is ludicrous, at best. Who cares! Only the greatest of films should have this sort of treatment.
    - Mike
     
  15. Brad_W

    Brad_W Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Messages:
    1,358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I won't buy the super-bit based on these great replies. Thanks everyone. The titles that I do have that are going to be released superbit, I cherish what extras they have. Also, as far as a better picture and sound: I'm using componant video on a flat screen tv and to me, this is heaven, the extra bit rate won't be worth another twenty or so dollars to me. If I feel I'm already in the movie due to vivid picture quality and sound, what's the point of feeling like I'm really really in the movie.
    ------------------
    "I was born to murder the world." -Nix (Lord of Illusions)
    My Home Page http://www.geocities.com/masternix/DVD.html
     
  16. cafink

    cafink Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Messages:
    3,043
    Likes Received:
    36
    Real Name:
    Carl Fink
     
  17. Vegas 1

    Vegas 1 Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 1999
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Real Name:
    Alvin Kuenster
    From the reviews on the Widescreen Review web site on Fifth
    Element & Air Force One Superbits they say they are not much better than the previous dvds. The average person will probably see & hear no difference. The DTS tracks do not have an edge over the DD tracks to speak of. I think I will pass on these for now.
     
  18. Chris Demaree

    Chris Demaree Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2000
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have found that I almost never watch 'extras' on DVD's unless it is extra footage, incorporated into the film. Since I don't own 'Air Force One' or 'The 5th Element' I will likely end up purchasing the superbit edition of these movies, possibly 'The Patriot' as well. If I can purchase the same movie with an Anamorphic transfer and at least a dd5.1 soundtrack (non-superbit), then price will be the deciding factor. However, if reviews regarding the picture and sound quality are not favorable, I will pay more for a 'superbit' version of a movie I want, but do not own.
     
  19. Luis Gabriel Gerena

    Luis Gabriel Gerena Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2000
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    0
    I really hope this discs deliver. As an FP owner I really want the best image quality possible so when projected at 8' wide it still looks good. I really couldn't care less about extras as long as I get reference picture and sound. Also, I completely agree that some of the newer discs are so full of extras that the image quality is taking a hit compared to older less "extrafied" discs. And whats with the multiple 5.1 soundtracks!, thats a real quality killer when you crammed so much stuff in one disc. I say English 5.1 and subtitles for French and Spanish.
     
  20. Will_B

    Will_B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Messages:
    4,731
    Likes Received:
    1
    Any merit to the theory that Superbits were simply an effort to make the films larger than what consumer DVD-recordable can record (making sure the film would not fit onto a consumer DVD+RW)?
    Whether that conspiracy theory is true or not, since I don't have an 8' tv screen, I'd rather have extras.
    But the pattern reminds me of CDs.
    Bowie's CDs came out originally with no bonus tracks.
    Then they were released with bonus tracks and improved sound quality.
    Then they were released without the bonus tracks again, but with even more improved sound quality.
    Next, they'll be released with bonus tracks again.
    It's just an effort to get people in and out on the same titles over and over again.
     

Share This Page