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SUPER NES CLASSIC announced (1 Viewer)

Morgan Jolley

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Nintendo announced they're making WAY more SNES Classics than they made NES Classics last year, so there should be plenty of supply this holiday.

Also, they're making more NES Classics for release next summer.
 

Josh Steinberg

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But what does all of this really mean, as far as more stock? I don't see it available for order anywhere. This is ridiculous. I don't understand why I can't just go to Nintendo.com and just buy one, or order one to be shipped when more stock is available.

Last night, I was visiting my dad's house. Went through the attic where I have my old stuff stored, found the Super Nintendo, brought it down and brought it home. It works fine. There's only one game for it that I truly love (Mario) and I have it. Got the controllers. I see absolutely no reason to buy an additional thing.

Nintendo could have had $80 from me because buying one of these consoles as a whim sounded fun at the time. But ultimately, they refused to make it available, so I spent an hour of my life looking through boxes and now I can play the game I want for free, and Nintendo will make absolutely nothing from me.

For a struggling company with financial difficulties, this makes absolutely no sense. The only reason they're not $80 richer from me is because they made buying their new console more of a pain in the ass than looking through boxes I packed over a decade ago. What's wrong with that equation?
 

DavidJ

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Nintendo announced they're making WAY more SNES Classics than they made NES Classics last year, so there should be plenty of supply this holiday.

Also, they're making more NES Classics for release next summer.

I'm so happy about this. I still really want an NES Classic.
 

Morgan Jolley

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Clinton - I think the reason it took so long for them to announce this (and even then, the NES Classic won't be out until next summer) was because there is limited factory space to produce these things. They looked at the sales numbers for Sega and Atari retro consoles, predicted how the NES Classic would sell, and thought it would be in the hundreds-of-thousands (not millions) of units range. Their factories were gearing up for Switch (and other hardware) production when they realized that the NES Classic had such high demand. The delay to produce more NES Classic units for early 2017 was due to that. The SNES Classic is now delaying further NES Classic production. I guess their "it was meant to be a limited time product" explanation was more "we didn't foresee this" rather than "we planned this."

Josh - the SNES Classic isn't out for another 2 weeks. Literally nobody has actually bought one yet. Nintendo said that the issues regarding preorders have to do with the retailers themselves, not Nintendo. So if you can't order one at Target or Best Buy's websites, it's because of Target or Best Buy. And even then it's just a preorder. Nintendo said there should be plenty of stock so that nobody has to buy one at a huge markup on eBay.

Also, Nintendo is absolutely NOT struggling or having financial difficulties. They have more money in the bank to work with than Sony and MS' gaming divisions combined. (Note that I am saying their gaming divisions, not MS or Sony as a whole. And even then, Nintendo may have more money.)
 

Josh Steinberg

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Josh - the SNES Classic isn't out for another 2 weeks. Literally nobody has actually bought one yet. Nintendo said that the issues regarding preorders have to do with the retailers themselves, not Nintendo. So if you can't order one at Target or Best Buy's websites, it's because of Target or Best Buy. And even then it's just a preorder. Nintendo said there should be plenty of stock so that nobody has to buy one at a huge markup on eBay.

Right... but I don't understand why I can't just order one from Nintendo. When Apple releases a new product, you can buy it on their website. The lack of ability to order it, along with the lack of information on the Nintendo site about how to get one, makes it seem as if it is completely unavailable.

Also, Nintendo is absolutely NOT struggling or having financial difficulties.

If they're not struggling financially, the perception I see is that they are no longer doing well... Playstation 4 seems to be the console of choice for people, alongside the Xbox One. A lot of people seem to like gaming on computers. I don't think the Wii U sold anything -- the last Nintendo I got was a Wii, which was an SD console released in an era of HD gaming. I'm not a gamer and I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert on this world, but Nintendo no longer seems to be the hip or cool or popular thing. I don't know about their financial health as a company, though I assumed that if they were no longer the most popular game maker out there, that would be problematic for their corporate health.
 

Morgan Jolley

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Again, it's not for sale, so you couldn't buy it right now if you wanted to, anyway. At most you would be able to preorder it. Nintendo doesn't sell its own products through its website (with the exception of some refurbished items, but they do most of that through an eBay store, I think). If you want an SNES Classic, just walk down to Target or Best Buy when it comes out on the 29th. I'm honestly not sure what is so confusing about that.

The Wii was an absolutely huge success and the Wii U was an absolutely huge failure. However, the way Nintendo operates their business provides them with a ton of income almost regardless of how well one piece of hardware sells. The Wii U still turned a profit, the 3DS has made them a ton of money, their outside efforts with branding and things like the NES Classic have made them a ton of money, and the Switch is selling twice as fast as the PS4 did when it came out (and would be doing better if they could keep up with demand). They're doing very well right now, even if there are more PS4 and Xbox One consoles in people's homes.
 

Josh Steinberg

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Again, it's not for sale, so you couldn't buy it right now if you wanted to, anyway. At most you would be able to preorder it. Nintendo doesn't sell its own products through its website (with the exception of some refurbished items, but they do most of that through an eBay store, I think). If you want an SNES Classic, just walk down to Target or Best Buy when it comes out on the 29th. I'm honestly not sure what is so confusing about that.

I just find that strange... and we can agree to disagree on the strangeness of that. But the idea that you can't preorder a new Nintendo from Nintendo strikes me as strange. I can preorder the new iPhone from Apple. Well, actually I can't yet, but the point is more, I can go to the Apple page, and it tells me when the phone will be available for preorder, when it will actually go onsale, information on how to buy it, and links to where the preorder will be.

Meanwhile, if I go to the Nintendo homepage, the SNES Classic doesn't even appear on the front page. I have to search for it, and when I get there, it merely gives a date that it will be released on, with no further information on how to get it. If you go to Amazon, it's just listed as unavailable. Same on the Best Buy site. The Target site says it's sold out. For me, my nearest Best Buy is probably a 30-45 minute trip each way from my house, and my nearest Target is about an hour away. I am not willing to make that kind of trip with no further information available as to whether or not the store will have it. I have had multiple negative experiences with Best Buy where their online product inventory listing does not match what the store has, so even if the Best Buy site said it was available at the store, I've been burned so many times that I just wouldn't believe it. That's why going to the store doesn't really work for me.

My only point was that for $80, this would have been an easy impulse purchase for me. If I could have simply gone to Nintendo.com and placed a preorder, it would have been done, and they'd be $80 richer. But because it appeared to be completely sold out before release, that allowed me a moment to stop and realize that I didn't need to make an impulse purchase out of this, and that I could simply pull my regular Super Nintendo out of the attic and use that instead. I'm happy to be saving $80. Nintendo took what was an easy impulse purchase and because of their bizarre sales tactics, made me realize that I didn't actually need it and that it wasn't worth jumping through hoops for. It was the same deal with the NES Classic last year. If it had been easy to buy, I would have bought it. Since it wasn't, I just played another round of those games on the Wii and saved myself the money. Again, that's all I mean when I say that Nintendo's marketing of these devices is bizarre -- these are clearly things that people don't "need" since the games are readily available on the Wii platforms and many people still have the old system. This was a purchase about nostalgia and about wanting rather than needing, and if Nintendo is able to get people to buy a redundant product that they don't actually need, and people are willing to pay for it, it's stupid for them to make people jump through hoops for what's basically free money to them.

What is the Switch? It's been mentioned a couple times in this thread but I have no idea what it is.
 

Morgan Jolley

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With the sole exception of the iPhone, how Nintendo is handling the SNES Classic isn't very different from any other company, really. You can't buy an LG TV from their main website, you can't buy a Samsung phone from their main website, and you can't buy a PlayStation from Sony's main website. (Microsoft is different because they actually have retail stores all over the place.)

Those retailers who list the SNES Classic as unavailable are doing what they normally do when an item is either unavailable for preorder or has already sold out. Each retailer pre-sells what it feels is appropriate given the amount they expect to receive from Nintendo and considering how many they want to have on-hand for the regular release. It's pretty hard to just sell an unlimited number of preorders and try to fill the demand. What if they get 10 million preorders but their manufacturing capacity can only make 2 million? Or what if they manufacture 5 million but only end up selling 1 million?

At this point, you're more upset with the nature of what happens when literally anyone besides Apple makes/sells literally anything technological besides the iPhone. Things that are popular get sold out.

The Switch is Nintendo's newest game system. If you go to http://www.nintendo.com/ there is a section for it. Basically, it's a portable system that resembles a landscape-oriented tablet with controls on either side, but then you can remove the controls, pop the tablet into a dock, and then play games on your TV with it.

EDIT: Another thing, you complained about Nintendo's marketing for the SNES Classic, but...there's actually been like zero marketing for it. They learned from the Wii that you don't really advertise a popular, sold out product because you're wasting money on ads for something that either people cannot physically or are already intending to buy (thus, the reason it's sold out). Once September 29th rolls around, if there are enough SNES Classic units in stores, then you'll see ads for it.

You should be able to order one from BB, Target, Wal-Mart, Amazon, wherever once it's out. The big issue is that retailers don't want to sell too many preorders then piss customers off by not having the inventory to meet demand. Imagine if you preordered one right now at Best Buy, then they cancel your preorder and send you an e-mail on September 29th saying they were out.
 

Josh Steinberg

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At this point, you're more upset with the nature of what happens when literally anyone besides Apple makes/sells literally anything technological besides the iPhone.

I don't think that's my issue.

I think my issue is that it appears that this a popular product where the company making it is artificially creating a scarceness in order to... build demand? Make it seem more popular than it is? Ensure that it's a collector's item in the future?

With the sole exception of the iPhone, how Nintendo is handling the SNES Classic isn't very different from any other company, really. You can't buy an LG TV from their main website, you can't buy a Samsung phone from their main website, and you can't buy a PlayStation from Sony's main website. (Microsoft is different because they actually have retail stores all over the place.)

OK, but the different between those products and the SNES Classic is that they're all readily available. LG isn't playing games with their new TVs... they're not saying "We're making some TVs, but not as many as people want to buy, so, like, good luck getting one." If Nintendo announced that this was a product that wasn't being released in limited quantities, and that all who wanted one could buy one (as is basically the case with an LG TV), that would be one thing. But they basically seem to be saying it's sold out in advance, and maybe they'll release some more, but good luck finding one.

It seems like the manufacturer is antagonizing me from the start.

The big issue is that retailers don't want to sell too many preorders then piss customers off by not having the inventory to meet demand.

And I think that's my issue, as seen from another side. Why is Nintendo not making inventory to meet demand in the first place? I don't blame Best Buy or Amazon for this, I blame Nintendo. It seems like they are intentionally making this a scarce product so that it will be a collector's item. It seems they aren't releasing this to make money but for the cultural zeitgeist around it. And that's what bothers me.

EDIT: Another thing, you complained about Nintendo's marketing for the SNES Classic, but...there's actually been like zero marketing for it.

Fair enough. All I can say is, for the past few weeks or whenever this was announced, I've been hearing about the SNES Classic almost everywhere I go online. I've never heard of the Nintendo Switch thing until this thread. So whether Nintendo is actually spending dollars on TV commercials, or is simply getting everyone to talk about it, the end result is the same - I'm reminded of this product frequently, while simultaneously being told that I'm basically not allowed to buy one.

The Switch is Nintendo's newest game system.

Thanks for the info! :) Unfortunately, this isn't a system for me. I have less than zero interest in handheld gaming, so the idea of a Gameboy that I could plug into my TV doesn't really appeal to me.


edit: Morgan, I hope it didn't seem as if I was singling you out or complaining directly at you -- I appreciate you taking the time to answer my posts and fill me in on things, and even if we ultimately disagree on some of the details, I really appreciate your take on this stuff.
 
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LeoA

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They have more money in the bank to work with than Sony and MS' gaming divisions combined. (Note that I am saying their gaming divisions, not MS or Sony as a whole. And even then, Nintendo may have more money.)

Like I've told you before, you do not know this.

There is no such thing as a Cash & Deposits line and such that's specific to either Sony or Microsoft's division that includes responsibility for their videogaming efforts, in either company's financial reports.

It's a corporate-wide figure that's provided. For Microsoft in their 2016 annual report for instance, it's over 113 billion on the balance sheet for "Total cash, cash equivalents, and short-term investments". For Nintendo if we add 'cash and deposits' with securities to get an equivalent figure from their most recent annual report, we arrive at almost 8.5 billion USD. And for Sony in 2017, we're looking at about 2 trillion Yen to Nintendo's 940 billion.

Maybe since their competitors are more diversified, Nintendo's efforts in this field are less restricted in what cash resources that they can access than the competition. And then again, maybe they're not. The point is that you don't know this since we, the public, aren't privy to that data. All we have is the balance sheet to go by and Nintendo's "cash" on hand is a far smaller figure than either Sony or especially Microsoft.
 
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Morgan Jolley

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Josh - no worries about me feeling singled out, I hope you feel the same!

I don't think Nintendo is intentionally creating scarcity for the NES/SNES Classic. They've expressed a desire to have every person who wants one, buy one from them (rather than at high markups on the secondhand market). The issue is that they simply can't make enough of them fast enough while also meeting their other goals as a company, such as Switch and 3DS deliveries. Right now, you can't buy the SNES Classic yet because it hasn't even been released, Nintendo has never sold hardware through its website, and all of the retailers who show it as "sold out" or "unavailable" are unaffiliated with Nintendo so that's not something that you should hold against Nintendo. They said earlier this week that they had nothing to do with retailer preorder sales so any issues with those should be directed to the retailer.

The second replied quote that you have shows me a bit of a disconnect with what you think is going on and what is really going on. Let's just use some fake numbers to explain. Nintendo is making, say, 5 million SNES Classics. Each retailer is told that they're getting 10,000 guaranteed on launch day with more to come later. So each retailer decides to presell 5,000 in order to have some available on launch day for people to walk in and purchase (because in-store purchases are better than pure online preorders for brick-and-mortar stores). So while it looks, to you, like there are ABSOLUTELY NO SNES CLASSICS AVAILABLE ANYWHERE the reality is that there will definitely be some available, in store and online, from a variety of places on September 29th and onward. You may have to wait a couple weeks if they're sold out, but you'll get one.

And while you're right about LG TVs not being sold out everywhere, that has more to do with the fact that LG TVs are facing a significantly lower demand than the SNES Classic. LG does not have the capacity to produce an infinite number of TVs at a moment's notice. They also don't do preorders through their website and, if they sold out of their preorders, they would not have the control over retailers to indefinitely allow preorders regardless of ability to fulfill them at launch.

Your expectations for Nintendo to make as many units as needed is unrealistic. They can't magically just make their factories produce more units than they are capable of, so how do you expect them to fulfill every last bit of consumer demand immediately? Either they delay the announcement of the release and delay the release in order to make more units (with less insight about demand) or they stick with their present course for the SNES Classic, which will likely meet demand but people may have to wait a bit to be able to get one. They're better off selling every last unit and making no more than that rather than making tens of millions in the hopes they sell them but being stuck with a lot left over. The NES Classic was underproduced last year because they frankly didn't think it would sell anywhere near as well as it did.

Leo - every so often, MS or Sony used to make announcements about the profitability of their game divisions. That's what I'm referring to. MS famously stated that the Xbox venture didn't become profitable until a few years into the 360's launch. Sony took huge losses on PS3 hardware sales. Nintendo has been turning a profit since, like, the 1800s. (An exaggeration, I know, but they do sell every unit of hardware for every console they've made, minus the Wii U, at a profit. And the Wii U was only sold at like a $10-15 loss or something.) Either way, they are not doing poor financially.
 

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This press Release was issued a day after my b-day:

OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE

Nintendo News: Nintendo Increases Inventory of Super NES Classic Edition; NES Classic Edition Returns to Stores in 2018

More units of Super NES Classic Edition will ship on its Sept. 29 launch day in the U.S. than were shipped of NES Classic Edition all last year, with subsequent shipments arriving in stores regularly

[September 12, 2017 05:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time]

REDMOND, Wash.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Due to incredible demand for the upcoming Super Nintendo Entertainment System: Super NES Classic Edition system, Nintendo plans to ship the retro-inspired product into 2018. Originally, shipments were announced to cease at the end of this calendar year.

In addition, more units of Super NES Classic Edition will ship on its Sept. 29 launch day in the U.S. than were shipped of NES Classic Edition all last year, with subsequent shipments arriving in stores regularly. Fans have shown their unbridled enthusiasm for these Classic Edition systems, so Nintendo is working to put many more of them on store shelves.

The Super NES Classic Edition system features 21 legendary Super NES games such as Super Mario World, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and Super Metroid. Launching on Sept. 29 at a suggested retail price of only $79.99, Super NES Classic Edition plugs directly into the TV using the provided HDMI cable, and comes with two wired controllers. For more information about Super NES Classic Edition, visit http://www.nintendo.com/super-nes-classic.

Next summer, Nintendo will also bring back the Nintendo Entertainment System: NES Classic Edition system with new shipments. More information about the timing of the return of NES Classic Edition will be announced in the future.

NES Classic Edition features 30 classic NES games such as the original Super Mario Bros., The Legend of Zelda and Donkey Kong. For more information about NES Classic Edition, visit http://www.nintendo.com/nes-classic/.
 

Morgan Jolley

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Assuming they don't change the NES Classic package to include a second one, I would expect them to make more. It might also depend on how well they sold during the first run.
 

LeoA

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They made so few of them that most stores never even got one in. So I don't think they can use that to gauge demand off of. I imagine what little they made sold as quick as the systems did.

And even if they do upgrade the NES Classic package to include two to match this year's release (Logical enough, although it would mean a MSRP increase), it would still be nice to see it available for last year's customers that wanted a second controller but just couldn't find one.

I mostly just want a spare. I'm a Y/B fan for games like platformers, so if this fails, the system is mostly useless to me. I can not tolerate using the A/B button on a 4 button Nintendo controller to run and jump in a Super Mario title for example, so plugging in a regular Classic Controller wouldn't get the job done for me.

The lack of button remapping so you could switch to Y/B on a Classic Controller was one of the few misses with last year's NES Classic (Which are the two buttons that Nintendo used themselves for games like Super Mario World and New Super Mario Bros. DS that were developed with their 4 button layout in mind).

I hope the Switch Virtual Console doesn't regress in that area after the welcome addition of remapping on the Wii U's own VC. No one layout will please everyone, but letting the customer customize it to their own liking means that everyone is always catered to.
 
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CraigF

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I can not tolerate using the A/B button on a 4 button Nintendo controller to run and jump in a Super Mario title for example, so plugging in a regular Classic Controller wouldn't get the job done for me.

Yeah, I also have a problem with using general-purpose controllers on pure- or mostly- platform games, it's just not comfortable anymore and feels really forced and wrist-fatiguing to me (probably just age, I don't recall this from years ago...). I find the X/PS controller style especially unsuited for these.

I wonder if maybe amazon will be selling the SNES Classic? Don't see it there still (1st party), they did "have" the NES Classic up when it came out. I really don't trust Best Buy in Canada to come through on pre-orders. They have no qualms about cancelling them well after the product is released, when it's often too late to get the product from somewhere else. Then they'll get some more product and put it in the stores, at the same price (so it's not to jack the price) = doubly annoyed (potential) customers. Whereas amazon won't cancel a pre-order until they're pretty sure there's no more product to be had.
 
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