Super Hero Movie Overkill? (1 Viewer)

[Paul_Sjordal]

I think they really are over-saturating the market. Heck, I'm starting to lose interest; I can only imagine the reactions of people who aren't former avid comic book collectors.

The why is pretty much obvious. Marvel's comic book business is in financial trouble and cranking out all these movies is the only thing keeping them above water. I still wish they'd slow down and concentrate on making fewer and better movies.

After all, as good as Marvel has been, the top two comic book movies of all time are still Unbreakable and Akira, at least by my estimation.

I still can't believe we've got this "comic book movie renaissance" that's been going on since the Batman movies, and no one is even talking about doing a proper movie version of Miller and Varley's Return of the Dark Knight. For that matter, why isn't there a Love and Rockets TV soap opera in the works?

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

X2: I like the darker narrative turn that the sequel took, but this films largest fun-sucker was the comical nature of violence (Hulk is another carrier of this disease). If you possess 18" daggers that grow out of your forarms and you gut 20 paramilitary commandos there should be a healthy sum of blood and gore drenching your wife-beater. If you can generate fireballs that explode police cruisers on contact, your human targets shoudn't, after a full minuet of burning, get up with nothing worse than a soot-blackened face. If your eyes emit a red force beam capable of removing a train-station roof... it should also be able to kill someone, and/or at least singe their shirt.

1) Wolverine killed or otherwise incapacitated at least 10 of the commandos. We don't need to see their blood on his wifebeater. This is X-Men, not Nightmare on Elm Street.
2) They're not superheroes if they go around killing cops and innocent bystanders.

 

[Garrett Lundy]

2) They're not superheroes if they go around killing cops and innocent bystanders

And the police (Who were the aggressors in the given situation), nor Deathstryke (Or even her hairstyle) ,who was unaffected by Cyclops' optical blast can be deemed bystanders by any reasonable means.

 

[Paul_Sjordal]

Garrett, they do what they have to do to keep a PG-13 rating. I'm sure the film makers would much rather have gone for more realism (I certainly would've preferred it), but they have to face certain economic realities.

 

[Rob Bartlett]

Really, I think the consequences of violence are more apparent then most movies in X2. No, it's not physiologically correct (but then, ntiether is being able to move in a leather jumpsuit) but the psychological effects have been interesting. When Wolvie stabs the guy, you feel a strong sense of discomfort as the soldier is wailing and wincing in an off-putting form of pain. When Bobby sees the bodies littering the floor, he looks at Wolverine very apprehensively, as the psycho he may very well be.

You made references to horror films Garret, but most are not "consequences of violence movies". There's an appeal in seeing teenegares slashed up. People have fun with it. many times it's done with an dark, toungue-in cheek attitude. Plus, the characters are made out to be so shallow and annoying many are supossed to feel a visceral form of pleasure from watching them butchered.

 

[Phil Florian]

I agree with the need to NOT show excessive blood in comic book movies. For the Hulk, as an example, Jeff Loeb who is writing a "Year One" story entitled "Gray" he takes the tack where he notes that no matter how violent the Hulk gets, he has yet to kill any person (and the same can be said in the movie, no?). In X-Men, though Wolverine has killed (and tons if I remember my years reading the book) the comic never dipped into excessive gore to point out that fact. I think it is keeping with the comic book tradition of making the point without going over the top. Some comics do go that far (The Authority, anyone) and that is fine, but is a much more limited audience that wants that. Wolverine scary and psychotic is good enough. A "Kill Bill" level of bloodbath would be pointless in a comic book movie of this sort.


Phil

 

[Scott Weinberg]

I think that the studio execs just see the "Comic Book Flick" as just another variation on their beloved Action Movies.

Not too long ago it was buddy-cop movies that were absolutely everywhere. Then it was the multiple-year assault of Die Hard retreads.

Since the technology is now in place to actually create the world of superheroes on the big screen, and that several of the early Marvel adaptations have proven so popular (not to mention profitable), I guess we'll see more and more of 'em until the genre is TRULY run right into the ground.

Hopefully that will not be the case. There are more than enough comic-book characters to support hundreds of movies. The key will be whether or not the people producing the films actually care about quality.

Because eventually one of the Super-Hero Movies will come out looking like The Cat in the Hat...a movie that makes The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen look like Richard Donner's Superman.

Over the last few years, we've seen the resurgence of several beloved genres (Westerns, Musicals, Comic-Book, Fantasy) and there's no reason we can't get quality examples of each one over the next several years.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

And since this is such a fun topic, here's my take on each of the Super-Hero movies we've seen so far.

Spider-Man - $403.7 million - OK, all of you out there who are roughly my age: pretend you're 10 years old again and Spider-Man comes out instead of Donner's Superman. I think Raimi's flick is nearly that good. Yeah, it has the stumbling block of "Origin Story" but I'm of the opinion that the movie covered origin and "first adventure" extremely well.

Batman - $251.1 million - I was caught up in all the Bat-buzz like everyone else...but the movie does NOT age all that well. For a more entertaining Bat-venture, I'd look to Part 2.

X2: X-Men United - $214.9 million - Head and shoulders superior to the original...and the first one's a pretty fine flick in its own right. A second visit on DVD confirmed my suspicions: X2 works great on repeat viewings.

Batman Forever - $184 million - Not the mega-turkey that Part 4 would be...but things were looking a little rough around the edges. And even though Val Kilmer is (sincerely) one of my favorite actors, he's just not Batman.

Batman Returns - $162.8 million - THIS is the one excellent bat-flick, if it's me you're asking. Dark and funny, sexy and slick.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - $135.2 million - I liked it in 1990. I cringed through it in 2003. Seems like not much more than a long TV commercial.

Superman - $134.2 million - The reigning champ of modern Super-Hero movies. Thrilling, charming, innocent, amusing, well-cast and lovingly realized. I adore the original Superman.

The Hulk - $132.1 million - While I do agree with many of the detractors' complaints (a bit too serious, long stretches with no action, "questionable physics", etc.), I still give this movie 4 (out of 5) stars...mainly because it's different than the other Super-Flicks. It's theatrical and dramatic, yet also possesses a self-awareness that keeps things interesting. Nolte goes way overboard (to an entertaining degree), Bana's solid in his few dramatic scenes, and J. Con is like heaven to look at. I dug it.

The Mask - $119.9 million - Does this one count? Carrey's never been more...animated. Cameron Diaz has never been more achingly cute, the FX are bizarre and funny, and that little dog cracked me up. Fun movie.

Superman 2 - $108.1 million - As a kid, I absolutely thought this one was better than the original. Watching S2 a few months ago, I almost smacked myself for believing it. Still, it's a damn entertaining crowd-pleaser that impressively forges its own story while harkening back to plot points from Part 1. If only Mr. Donner had been allowed to finish the damn movie, we could have had something even better.

Batman and Robin - $107.2 million - I'm not one to just "pile on" a universally reviled flick just for the fun of it (I like Ishtar AND Armageddon), but this one's just...wretched. And I mean "wretched" in the purest sense of the word. Nary a frame flicks by on this movie that doesn't damage the eyes and boggle the mind. It's biblically atrocious.

Daredevil - $102.5 million - I think this one suffers from simply following the "Super Hero Template" a bit too earnestly. I wouldn't classify it as a BAD movie (it's got too many cool actors in it to be that bad), but it's just so...familiar. Farrell and Alias Gal salvage scenes whole, a few of the action bits are quite exciting, Affleck fares better as the blind lawyer than he does as a leather-clad ass-kicker. A flick I'd watch again on cable, but I don't need to add it to my DVD collection.

Blade 2 - 81.6 million - and Blade - $70 million - It's weird how both of these movies get better with multiple viewings....yet they're both VERY different movies. Guess it's just the Snipes thing. Both are suitably dark, slick and laden with goopy slayings...and both are saddled with uneven pacing, laborious devotion to blah-blah backstory and a non-emotive leading man. Still, I enjoyed them both enough to look forward to Blade 3.

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen - $66.4 million - C'mon admit it; 66 million is like three times what we expected it to gross. And while it's a sloppy and silly and periodically moronic movie...it's not "seething anger" bad. More like "endearing and goofy bad". Give it a rent and see for yourself.

Annd let's not overlook: The Phantom, The Shadow, Darkman, The Fantastic Four (yes, I've seen it too!), The Punisher (1989), Captain America, The Rocketeer, Mystery Men, Hero at Large , Spawn, Meteor Man, Blankman, The Specials, Unbreakable, Condorman, The Return of Captain Invincible, Super Fuzz...

I'll spare us all the TV-movie versions of Spidey, The Hulk, The Flash, Dr. Strange, etc.

Looking to the future? Spider-Man 2 obviously has me very psyched, and I'd love to see Bryan Singer et al. stay on board for an X3, only I bet they make it "X Cubed with the Integer". Ha. I've been pumped to see Hellboy since Day One.

Ghost Rider? Here's what I wanna know. Why is Nicolas Cage so psyched to play a guy who has (if memory serves) a skinless skull that's perpetually on fire? It'll be neat to look at if nothing else.

Hellblazer (aka Constantine) - Well, Neo's in it so it's gotta be good.

Catwoman? Puh-leeze. This one has the biggest chance of being the Heaven's Gate of Super-Hero movies.

The Fantastic Four - Tough call for the studio. In order to do it RIGHT, you'll have to spend like $200 million. But are the characters popular enough (worldwide) to warrant such a gamble? But if there's a studio that can pull it off, it's Fox.

Batman: Intimidation - Bale and Caine and Nolan oh my. Based on just that information, I'm quite interested. Keep up the smart decisions.

Superman - Lemme know when pre-PRE-production starts, WB. Till then, it's a non-blip on the radar.

Wonder Woman - Do it like Batman and you're nuts. Do it like The Brady Bunch Movie and you may have something. But I bet they do it like Charlie's Angels.

The Punisher - Last good movie Thomas Jane was in was...Deep Blue Sea? The trailer feels generic but kinda gritty. Could suck; could be a nice surprise. We'll soon see.

Man-Thing - Dunno the character, but I like the title. It's like he's a man AND a thing. Which could be goopy.

Iron Man - No lie, he was one of my favorite super-heroes. (Him, Spidey and Green freakin' Lantern; where's HIS movie?) If and when this one gets rolling, I'll be quite interested.

Elektra - I'll only like it if it has Alias Girl in skin-tight leather doing karate kicks and lookin' purty.

Namor - So this guy gets a movie and Aquaman rides the pine with Thor and Green Arrow. No fair. I should write a screenplay for an Aquaman movie. Bet nobody's even bothered yet.

Nick Fury, Deathlok, Werewolf By Night, Iron Fist - Dunno these guys. They better have tight budgets.

...and I know it's virtually impossible what with the different licensing arrangements, but how COOL would it be to have a Super-Hero Battle Royale movie.

Oh, and I guess this would be a good thread to mention this trailer for an upcoming western/comic-book adaptation called Blueberry. Looks interesting.

Enough blather. Applebee's time.

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Interesting thing on a "new" SUPERMAN. I really think one of the reasons this keeps getting delayed & pushed back is, everyone who becomes involved in it, starts ot have second thoughts about having to stand in the shadow of the Donner/Reeves version.

 

[TheLongshot]

If you possess 18" daggers that grow out of your forarms and you gut 20 paramilitary commandos there should be a healthy sum of blood and gore drenching your wife-beater.

Only one thing to say: PG-13. One of the realities of big budget moviemaking is that you must go for as broad appeal as you can. They did as well of a job as they could under the restrictions...

Jason

 

[Andy Sheets]

Nick Fury, Deathlok, Werewolf By Night, Iron Fist - Dunno these guys. They better have tight budgets.

Fury's like James Bond from Brooklyn, Deathlok is like Robocop but not really, Werewolf is a werewolf, and Iron Fist is a white guy who knows kung fu. Not very high concepts but at least that gives a lot of leeway for doing an adaptation

 

[Paul_Sjordal]

Nice list Scott, but you forgot a few important ones: Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Metropolis, Road to Perdition, American Splendor, Men in Black, and The Crow.

 

[todd stone]

xmen3 in 2006?

yeesh waiting a bit long.....

 

[Steve_Tk]

I don't have a problem with it. At least it brings some light of originality to the screen. Do we really need another peter pan movie?

 

[Phil Florian]

Just saw next year's possibly best comic book adapation...a cool preview of "Hellboy!" It was great, I thought. Kind of retro feel with some high tech twists...very true to the comic. The characters looked great and the apparent lack of CG in them was cool (lots of Hellboy and Abe Sapien shots). It is a gamble, because I think X1 and X2 were great because a great director took hold of material that interested him but he was NOT an X-Fan from days of yore (meaning: not a fanboy). "Daredevil" was created by a Daredevil fanboy who had all these great ways to get the cool scenes from the comic onto the screen but forgot to write, edit, direct real characters, etc. Thus, horrible. Yet, Peter Jackson was a huge fanboy of LOTR and it has done pretty well, I think. del Toro is a huge fanboy of the Hellboy books but is also (to me, anyway) an accomplished director so it has potential. Looked great, anyway.

Phil

 

[Phil Florian]

Yes, we need Pan. When was the last good one? I think iconic characters can and should be redone from time to time to allow each generation to interpret it. Comic books are just that but have done so for 30, 40 and some over 50 years. How many times do we need to read that Batman's parents were tragically killed in the aply named "Crime Alley?" How many times does Peter Parker need to be an angst filled teen who lost his Uncle Ben? A bunch more. 30 years from now, they will still be writing and re-writing these iconic stories with new twists and turns that make it breathe for a new generation. Just because it is an iconic character with name recognition doesn't mean it won't be novel. I mean, most movies are repeating the same themes over and over, even if they change the name. The cop that has to go above the law to get justice done. The mismatched couple that no one ever would have thought would come together but in the end do. War movies (does anyone need to be reminded that the Axis lost? Do we need to see it again? Yes). And Pan, which has more psychological subtext (and positively obvious stuff, too) than most kids stuff and much of the adult stuff out there should have a new look.


The bigger question...do we really need another Dawn of the Dead?

Phil

 

[Bill Williams]

One thing we have to keep in mind about Superman and Superman II is that their box-office receipts were in 1978-79 and 1981 dollars. If they were adjusted to today's current box-office dollar prices, they would certainly be in the $300-$400 million receipt range, I believe. But at the time, the first Superman was one of Warner's highest grossing pictures ever.

 

[Shawn_KE]

Superman would be equivalent to $356 mil today and Superman 2 would be $226.6.

 

[JonZ]

Spider-Man - A excellent adaptation. Very true to the spirit of the character.Great job!

Batman - A massive disappointment. Hamms good story ruined by bad decisions.Sorry but not even close to the way Batman should be.

X2: X-Men United - Vastly superior to the original. I wish it were 20 minutes longer.

Batman Forever - Another nightmare. Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey acting like asses for 2 hours. They turned the excellent,serious,cool and calculating villians of Two Face and Riddler into prancing baboons.

Batman Returns - The best Batflick IMHO

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - No comment.

Superman - STILL the greatest comic book adation IMHO. A masterpiece. Not only of comic book movies but of film. Belongs up there with some of the greatest films ever made.

The Hulk - Hated the ending. The Hulk looked amazing in some scenes and horrible in others. A good effort, hopefully like XMen, the sequel (which will have The Leader and Abomination)will be better.

The Mask - Terrible. From a horror comic to a slapstick movie.

Superman 2 - Unevern and probally would have been alot better if Donner was allowed to finish. Great battle scenes,especially impressive whhat they did for the time it was filmed.

Batman and Robin - Every copy in existance should be burned

Daredevil - I liked it more than most. DD was always a minor player in the Marvel universe. Good but not great.

Blade 2 - I like this one better than the original.Sure its dumb but its entertaining.

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen - Didnt see it.

The Rocketeer - A very underrated movie and adaptation. Was intended to be a trilogy. Too bad.

Ghost Rider - Can be interesting if they do it right.Curious to see how this works out.

Catwoman - A waste of time

Fantastic Four - Could be a monster. Great possibilites here. This book was amazing the first few years John Byrne did it focusing on the family aspect. FF could rule if not screwed up.

Batman: Intimidation - Is Ras interesting enough and do we want Batman traveling the world to capture him? Interesting so far.....

Superman - Forget the current reinvent trilogy idea. Go with whats already been established. 2 films involving Brainiac or Darkseid would be great.I havent liked ANYTHING Ive heard about Superman

Wonder Woman - A tricky one. Keep and explore the mythology aspects liek George Perezs issues and we have something.

The Punisher - Not sure so far.

Iron Man - I agree this is the one I most want to see. Alcoholic Stark against Absorbing Man and Modok!! Make this now!

Iron Fist - Team him up with Power Man during the 70s and we could have a really cool movie.

Conan Crown of Iron - Milius is considering WWF Triple H? Kill me now please.

Wolverine - MUST be based of Frank Millers early 80s story.

X3&4 - Should be one story filmed at the same time. Hellfire Club and Sentinels and then Dark Phoenix to conclude. Famke is already over 40.Ending leaves a opening for younger Xmen to come into the fold.

Watchmen - They were talking about tis movie int he late 80s when Terry Giliam was attached. This film will never get made.

Captain Marvel - Thinking of casting The Rock? 'nuff said.


Wishful Thinking:

Grendel Trilogy

 

[Shawn_KE]

Watchmen - They were talking about tis movie int he late 80s when Terry Giliam was attached. This film will never get made.

Alan Moore will keep this film from being made.

A proper Captain Marvel would be pretty interesting. So would a movie adaption of Kingdom Come.

 

[Bill Williams]

Now a Kingdom Come film would be really boss, if they stayed true to the storyline and didn't screw around with it at all. If only Christopher Reeve hadn't had his accident, then the KC movie would have been the perfect opportunity for him to return as an older Superman. At least DC dedicated their graphic novel to him, which was really powerful.

How about Marvel's Earth X trilogy (Earth X, Universe X, and Paradise X)? Think they would make great films or even animes?