Subwoofer wars

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Mike^S, Dec 16, 2004.

  1. Mike^S

    Mike^S Stunt Coordinator

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    Man, I've been seeing a lot of subwoofer wars lately both here and on avsforum. Whenever someone asks for advice, we get not only a bunch of owners swooping in, but even the manufacturers and retailers themselves. It almost makes me laugh, but I know they can turn into big flame wars. I think it's getting to be a bit too much.
     
  2. Matt_Smi

    Matt_Smi Second Unit

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    Agreed...
     
  3. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    Mike, welcome to bulletin boards in general. I belong to a number of boards of all types, R/C boards, Musician boards, etc. and it seems to be a universal phenomenon common to all bulletin boards. There is always an "elitist" element that believes that if you didn't spend an arm and a leg on something, that something just isn't any good. It isn't any different on this board. One thing I do have to say about this site though is that generally, everyone is extremely helpful and I have learned a lot. The moderators are great here too and don't exhibit the "prima donna" syndrome I have experienced on the other boards I belong to, especially the musician boards. One of the most disappointing things on these and other boards is when someone says "I can only spend $xxxxx of money" and asks for advice on something in his price range and someone comes back and says "Save your money and buy this.....blah, blah, blah..." What if that person only has that amount of money and probably won't have much money in the future to save, shouldn't we try to help him/her get the best value for whatever money he/sh has? I have been at Wal-Mart for example and seen an obviously cash strapped family, i.e., funky car, 5-6 kids, etc., pick up a HTiB that costs all of $100.00 or less and the father being as happy as a clam that he can finally jump into HT. Those of us with the means to buy our 5-10K systems sometimes lose the reality that there are people out there who actually drive cars worth less than some of our HT systems. Then there are those of us, myself included, who would never think of spending over 300 bucks for a DVD player even though we can. In any case "elitism" hurts any bulletin board and I suspect some people actually use the medium as an ego booster. In the end, I personally don't care if the system I have chosen cost 100 dollars or 10K dollars; it works for me and I enjoy it. I'm sure that father with the 100 buck HTiB feels the same way.[​IMG]
     
  4. Mike^S

    Mike^S Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the reply and welcome Chuck, although I am not new to bulletin boards. I've been posting on boards for many years. And I've been browsing this one for years as well and just recently decided to start posting.

    Anyways, I agree with you about the elitist attitude that some people have on these boards. But that isn't really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how the manufacturers are coming into threads trying to convice potential customers why their product is better. I think they should limit it to:

    Hey we make some good subwoofers, check out our website.
     
  5. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    Mike, my bad...... I misundersood your point. Yes you are right, but a lot of the times they don't make themselves known as manufacturers. The web is great for anonymity.
     
  6. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Well this is very much a spinoff of the forum generation. Combine that with the fact that so much information is out now and the fact the major contributors to these wars are generally fans of online only products that survive off word of mouth and you get exactly what happened.

    In the end all it does it push people away from already great products.
     
  7. Max F

    Max F Second Unit

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    Mike, I was thinking the exact same thing two minutes ago. I guess it shows the power of these message boards, well i guess at least for the internet direct companies.

    I don't really like it much actually, kind of disturbing[​IMG] Almost makes you loose trust in the information here - maybe too biased.

    HSU and SVS both make good subs, now lets leave it at that.
     
  8. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Max,
    I totally agree. You never know if someone has an agenda or not or what kickbacks they are getting or what kind of experience they've had with xyz company. I've seen it with HSU, SVS and even Outlaw just to name a few.

    I'm not ready to totally pin it on online only company followers but the vast majority of the big wars I've seen are from their customers. This kinda stinks because it hurts Tom/Ron and the folks at Hsu as much as it hurts AV123 and several others.

    In the end, we must be glad we have lots of choices.
     
  9. Peter Marcks

    Peter Marcks Stunt Coordinator

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    Greeting Mike,

    I understand your frustration, I really do.

    One of my goals in posting on the internet is to help consumers learn more and understand more about our products and about subwoofers in general. Most people have a very limited view on what constitutes subwoofer performance, and Hsu Research would like to expand these opinions a bit more.

    You wouldn't believe all the hundreds of emails we have gotten over the last few years asking us why we had no representation on the internet. This left our products open to criticism, even when the criticism was untrue or undeserved. We even had one sub, the TN1225HO, that went into extinction primarily because consumers misinterpreted and misunderstood the data at hand, and we had no representation on the internet to say otherwise.

    I can't speak for some of the other companies, but we are a relatively small company. At Hsu Research we all work long hours with relatively little pay, and even Dr. Hsu pays himself very little from the company. Most of the profits from speaker sales go towards funding more Research and Development, since we do all the R&D in house, from drivers to amplifiers to ports to enclosures.

    At the end of the day, we just want to make sure that our customers or potential customers have a support system, and that consumers learn as much as possible about our products and about subwoofer design in general. We all have a true passion for audio, and that's why we do this. Hopefully you can all appreciate that.

    Cheers
     
  10. CurtisSC

    CurtisSC Screenwriter

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    From seeing Dr. Hsu's beat up mini-van at your offices, I would tend to believe you.
     
  11. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I like my beat up car. It has nothing to do with how much I make though [​IMG]
     
  12. Eddie Horton

    Eddie Horton Stunt Coordinator

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    Darn right, John. It's amazing what new gear you can buy when you have no car payments!!!
     
  13. Jeff-0

    Jeff-0 Stunt Coordinator

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    Well I'm really looking for some solid info as I am in the subwoofer market. I will say I did try the outlaw and did return it. It is a fine product but for my ears it just didn’t have the right tone to it (I know it’s a subwoofer but it still has a sonic signature)

    It was extremely tight but I just couldn’t get the sound to please my ears. I guess that is what has kept me from making another purchase. I hate to keep sending things back.

    I have obviously narrowed it down to hsu and svs. I guess I really need to make some calls to each and see who gives me a better feel (first impressions and spoken knowledge mean much to my decision)

    I want a sub for both music and HT, I will purchase a 12" not a 10" sub but it must play low, as low as possible, 25 Hz wont cut it, I will spend in the $600.00-$700.00 range including shipping.

    I think it should play tight but also have the ability to go earth shaking low, I want it to have a warm sound to it (the outlaw had a not warm sound to my ears if that makes sense)

    Im open to suggestions........

    Thanks.
     
  14. Mike^S

    Mike^S Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Peter, I'm glad we have some representation from Hsu. I remember Sasha used to post on various boards for a while but I haven't seen him lately.

    Anyways, I'm not trying to stop anyone from posting. I just hope everyone keeps it civil. [​IMG]
     
  15. DorianBryant

    DorianBryant Screenwriter

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    This board is far better than others as far as the civility of the posters. I post at AVS forum as well and their are truly some arrogant and rude people posting there.
     
  16. paul clipsel

    paul clipsel Stunt Coordinator

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    Seems to me that the exact same group of people monitor any forum posting or mention of the words subwoofer,svs,av123,rocket,hsu,compare and of course bass. As I mentioned in another thread it seems to come down to a mines bigger than yours p_ssing contest. Quite annoying IMO.

    PC
     
  17. jephdood

    jephdood Stunt Coordinator

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    See "Great sub for $400 - $500?" thread for a current example of one of these "mine's better than yours" battles. This one is sliding so far down the company reps themselves are slapping each other with personal attacks at this point. Sheesh.
     
  18. Jeff-0

    Jeff-0 Stunt Coordinator

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    yes i i have yet to have either one of them answer my questions in this post. maybe they should remember we are the ones spending the money on their products.

    lets see who can be of help to me 1st.....
     
  19. Peter Marcks

    Peter Marcks Stunt Coordinator

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    Good evening jeff-0,

    I recommend checking out the VTF-3 MK2. This subwoofer has 350 watts RMS and 1400 watts peak amplifier power, with dual heavily flared ports. The nice thing about this subwoofer is that it gives you a choice of variable tuning for either maximum output or maximum extension. Our original VTF-3 has been measured by several industry professionals, and frequency response should be good down to 16Hz in maximum extension mode and 20Hz in maximum output mode in room. We also have a special right now where both the black and rosewood versions are selling for $699.

    Please let me know if you have any more questions.

    Thanks
     
  20. Jeff-0

    Jeff-0 Stunt Coordinator

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    i have been reading about the vtf-3. is the plug something i should leave out all the time? what are the drawbacks of leaving it out for all listening?

    i will use it for a 50/50 mix of ht and music but i want it to be able to play low. volume will be average, perhaps around -15ish. the reason i ask is because i really want to plop it down and forget about it.

    thanks. J

    specs:
    Harmon Kardon AVR 230
    Axiom M60's Mains
    Axiom M3ti's Surrounds
    Paradigm CC-370 Center
    Infinity PS-12 sub (I am upgrading this within the next 2 weeks)
     

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