Subwoofer Shootout : Hsu Vs. SVS : Methodolgy

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Craig Chase, Jan 28, 2004.

  1. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Once both Hsu and SVS finally..[​IMG] .. start shipping the new Hsu VTF-3 Mark 2 and the SVS PB-2-Ultra, We will be doing a comparison. You may have seen this on other forums... but I was asked to post it here, along with methodology.

    There will be TWO of the HSU subs, $1398 Delivered....
    There will be ONE of the SVS subs, $2398 delivered....

    The Hsu will have the standard charcoal finish
    The SVS will have a real maple finish.

    As an update, I tried to get SVS to tell me how much less what the price would be on the Ultra Box with a finish like the PB2-+ .... They could not provide an answer, and all we can do is guess. A pair of Ultras is about $500 more than a pair of 20-29 pc + ... So a reasonable guess is about half the $1000 difference is in the finish.

    Be gentle now... that is just a guess..

    For methodology, we will be conducting blind tests for listening purposes, and will not know which sub (s) we are listening to until after the test and our notes are done.

    We will be using both music and movies.

    Both subs will have extensive work done in room placement and calibration.

    After the listening portion is done, we may or may not do objective measurements ( how loud can this play at 22 hz ? ) ... Interest here will determine that.

    If you are really into either company... bribes are optional...
    [​IMG]

    Actually... the subs were picked after talking to both companies... these were their "choice" ...

    and for the record, I like both companies... They both build great products... so you won't see any flame throwing... I welcome any suggestions, but do not want to hear about stolen ideas, country of origin... or anything else that has nothing to do with how they sound (and possibly measure) ....

    To the ADM. of this forum... If I have said anything "wrong" so far... please let me know...

    Thanks !

    Craig (sub)
     
  2. Keith Hyde

    Keith Hyde Stunt Coordinator

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    Are you saying it is fair to assume you will not be able to tell a difference between two subs being played and one sub being played in this blind test? I have no expereience here, but I'd think that'd be the weakest assumption of the blind test. Maybe not, so long as the two are side-by-side. And if SVS is confident in the match, well so be it.

    Look forward to the results.
     
  3. brentl

    brentl Cinematographer

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    I'd just like to see Subs of equal value compared not something with this big a price difference.

    I'll keep my eyes open for the review.

    Brent
     
  4. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Keith - The SVS does have 2 twelve inch drivers in it, and each Hsu has a single 12 inch driver. Besides, the SVS are more expensive....

    Brentl, I actually ordered the SVS before the Hsu. The good people at Hsu knew which SVS theirs would be up against... they have more expensive options, but are confident in what they are sending.

    BUT - We are also going to test, for example, a single SVS 25-31 pc + ( $775) vs a single Hsu... you may find that helps you more.

    That being said, It will be interesting to see a how the newest from each company does on its own...

    On a personal note... I am buying these subs with my own money, there is no company involvement... ( darn it )

    The subs that will be available for comparison...

    1. Hsu VTF-3 Series 2 (2 of them)
    2. SVS-PB-2 Ultra ( 1 )
    3. SVS 25-31 pc plus ( 1 )
    4. SVS 16-46 pc plus ( 2 )
     
  5. JohnGil

    JohnGil Stunt Coordinator

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    What exactly is the purpose of this shootout. Im not flaming here just curious. I own a SVS 20-39pc+ and I dont care realy who wins but I think it would only be a fair shootout to compare "like" subs (Hsu VTF-3 Mark 2 and SVS PB1+).
     
  6. Robert_Gaither

    Robert_Gaither Screenwriter

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    Actually I don't see how there will be much of a difference between any of subs while they play in their pass band when played below reference levels. I personally think you need to provide us at least the room size, the level playback from reference (assuming you are playing at a lower/higher level than reference), and of course a basic sweep of the room so we can get an idea what room modes are in effect.

    What I personally will think will affect this test the most is when the subs are pushed either to their limits or below tuning frequency, and how that is going to be interpeted by the reviewer(s).
     
  7. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    I would certainly be interested in the "objective" test methods that you mentioned above. I know it will be more work, but I think for a legitimate shootout you've got to provide that type of information. I'm looking forward to the results.
     
  8. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    The basic purpose is to show what the "latest and greatest" from both companies can do. I listed above the subs we have on hand... so there are a lot of choices...

    Here is something... Would anyone find it interesting if we were to find that a single Hsu sounded as good (in our 5700^foot room), in blind tests, as did the SVS ?

    Or that the SVS was SO good, that it was far superior to the Hsu ? One can find that the Hsu is likely the sonic equal to a lot of $2500 subs available at a B&M store... So we may find the SVS can hold its own with.... anything under $6000 ?

    There are a number of areas to consider...

    OH - And We want to have some fun... !!!
     
  9. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    The room is 25 by 24 by 9.5 feet...

    Robert - Perhaps there will not be any difference at lower levels... we want to find out...

    Keep it coming...
     
  10. terence

    terence Supporting Actor

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    Sounds great Craig,

    Bring it on! Can't wait to read it, I just hope this thread will stay civil and informative after it's all said & done. People do tend to get emotional about both companies involved, I will hope for the best. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Craig,

    If you decide you would rather go with dual PB-2isd subs so there is more in common (dual subs for each side, *standard* finish for each, closer pricing,ect)...just let us know. With the PB-2Ultra, much of the cost is related to the custom wood finish. With the PB-2isd and PB-2+...the price/performance ratio sky rockets..[​IMG]

    Tom V.
    SVS
     
  12. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Tom, Before answering that, We have a single 25-31 pc plus and the pair of 16-46 pc plus...

    Wouldn't They be a pretty close item to the VTF-3 ?

    It would seem a great price to price comparo WOULD be the 25-31 pc + to the VTF-3 ...
     
  13. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Terence, In order to ensure objectivity, I joined the Hsu forum. The guys there really put me through my paces... and they know their stuff.

    I think I am pretty well prepared for anything thrown at me... ( he says with confidence...lol )

    That being said... if anyone wants to yell at me... go read what Terence wrote.... [​IMG]

    Terence...Thanks for the thoughts... they are appreciated !
     
  14. CurtisSC

    CurtisSC Screenwriter

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    OK Craig...I will say it here.

    Regardless of how you test, what you test, and what we all think....you are going to have a lot of fun with this.

    Would be fun to have all the subs in your house playing at the same time and then going outside to find out what the neighbors can here. All doing the Finding Nemo scene 25 (Darla glass tapping) at the same time should be quite interesting. [​IMG]

    Looking at the two companies offerings, the only real apples to apples comparison is the Hsu STF-3 and the SVS PB1-ISD. Both boxes, single drivers, $600.

    STF-2 = $399 ($349 at CompUSA)
    STF-3 = $599
    VTF-3MK2 = $699 (in "standard" finish)

    PB1-ISD = $599
    PB2-ISD = $899
    PB2-Plus = $1199
    PB2-Ultra = $2299
     
  15. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Curtis... you dwell on money too much...[​IMG]
    Just teasing... Tom V. has mentioned possibly doing a test using a pair of the PB-2 + ...a pair of the VTF-3 Series 2 would only be $100 more than the PB-2 + after shipping...

    That seems darn close...

    then a $699 Hsu against a $775 SVs ... as mentioned before...

    We MAY go with the pb 2 + ...

    anyone else have an opinion (or bias if you are a newbie on the Hsu forum...lol) ???

    There are lots of possibilities...

    but neither the STF-3 nor the PB1-isd is what I want for my 5700^ft room... so.......:p)
     
  16. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    The comparison test would be between a SINGLE SVS Pb-2 + and tha PAIR of VTF-3/2's ...
     
  17. CurtisSC

    CurtisSC Screenwriter

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    I dwell on money because my pockets are not as deep as yours. [​IMG]

    So you are now thinking maybe two VTF-3MK2's and one PB2-Plus for your comparison? Cost wise, that is very close.

    Definitely lots of possibilities.

    Aww heck...just get one of everything.
     
  18. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Curtis... My wife already thinks that is what I want... one of everything ! The fact that she is right is not relevant...lol

    I did not hear back from Dr. Hsu on the switching from the 3/s'2 to the 1220's... so they will remain the same ( meaning we still get the 3/2's)...he is a man of few words...

    I did think that it would be cool to hear the 3/2's against something that is going after the $5000 to $10,000 subs... ( as in, VTF-3/2 VS the Pb2 Ultra...)... and SVS is pretty confident their new 190 pounder can go toe to toe with anything in that range...

    Especially since we can also do a comparo between the $775 25-31 pc plus and the $699 3/2 ...
     
  19. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
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    Craig:

    I am looking forward to your results and I know you are going to have lots of fun doing this.

    Parker
     
  20. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Parker... You think you own the place or something ?[​IMG]

    I am having a blast... Good group of people here... Thanks for writing !
     

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