Subwoofer reviews

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JameelCH, Mar 20, 2003.

  1. JameelCH

    JameelCH Auditioning

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    Just saw the April issue of DVD Etc magazine with it's review of 18 subwoofers.

    It rates the DefTech supercube 1 as a 97, same as the Velodyne HGS-18.

    Only the infinity sub is rated higher at 98. These three subs get the highest rating.

    Wow!

    Good to see such a comprehensive comparison. Those looking to get a sub, check the reviews out.

    As a supercube 1 owner I can vouch for the fact that the supercube rocks!

    Jester.[​IMG]
     
  2. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    The day a reviewer claims a DefTech Supercube 1 can hang in the same room with the Velo HGS-18 is the day that reviewer loses all credibility with me.

    If the DT Supercube 2's performance numbers are at all reflective of the product line (and they should be given the similarities of their designs), then the DT SC1 will not even begin to match the Velo in flat FR, deep extension, low THD, transient response, and SPL capability.

    If there is one thing all these Sunfire clones have in common, it is extraordinarily high THD. The DT SC2 cannot even manage to break 85 dB at 25 Hz without exceeding 10% THD, and its average output from 25-63 Hz was only 97 dB at the same 10% THD limit (S&V review). I might give the DT SC1 a few more dB in both categories, but even then this cannot possibly be viewed as anything but a very mediocre performance. Sure, it'll play louder than that, but you'll be taking some major levels of harmonic distortion right along with you.

    IMHO, the Velo HGS-18 is one of a handful of reference standards by which all great subwoofers should be measured. I have heard it - it is amazing. I have not heard the DT SC line, but I read the above-referenced review on its smaller brother, and I have heard its competitor clones, and that was enough for me - no comparison - not even close.

    The DT SC line should only be compared to Sunfire, Earthquake, and all the other similarly designed clones. It should not even be mentioned in the same breath as the Velo HGS-18.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  3. MarkyM

    MarkyM Agent

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    Where was SVS and HSU???
    no comparion can be made without these two excellent
    Sub Manfacturers
     
  4. PaulT

    PaulT Supporting Actor

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    Here's an old list from testing done by Tom Nousaine:

    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...64#post1259764

    Note with interest a post following the list by Tom Vodhanel of SVS with some DT Supercube II measurements (also by Tom N.).

    Compares well to some 200$ Subs. Not even close to anything else....

    This is not meant as a flame, and the tests above were the II series. It is just meant to show that magazine ratings fall short in a lot of cases depending on the numbers of brands they are testing as well as their published (or not) testing methods.

    I hope you get huge amounts of enjoyment from your DefTech sub. I bought a Paradigm Servo-15 (which is rated less SPL output than the less expensive PW2200) after I ran one through it's paces for an hour in a demo room. To my ear, it clearly had an edge over the 2200 'in what I was listening for and testing with a SPL meter'.

    Whatever makes you happy [​IMG]
     
  5. JameelCH

    JameelCH Auditioning

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    I would respectfully like to add that if a guy has done side by side comaprisons of equipment then that is worthy of some consideration. Certainly outright dismissal is unwarranted.

    I expect that the staff of DVD Etc is at least able to do some ball park comparisons. Ultimately these are highly personal opinions, but it is still possible to tell when a speaker sounds right.

    Whether a speaker can run at 110dB is not the point. Does it sound good during normal use is what matters. I have since done a side by side with a borrowed velo HGS 12. At very loud (too loud for me) listening levels the velo clearly has an edge. At more normal levels (Avia 80dB each speaker) I can't tell the difference. Ultimatley the room accoustics add a particular flavor no matter what the sub - that is unless you are just want to listen to sub!

    Jester [​IMG]
     
  6. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    I'm glad you had a chance to do a back to back comparo. While I did throw SPL into the mix as one of my performance criteria, you will note I focused more on THD than any other factor.

    In fact, the HGS series is not known for extraordinarily high output since the servo circuit is quite adamant about keeping THD below a set level and will limit ultimate SPL as needed to accomplish this.

    That is not to say the HGS-18 can't pound - it can - primarily because it has a highly sophisticated 18" driver that allows both high SPL AND very low THD at the same time. The same is true, but to a lesser extent, of the HGS-12.

    The primary reason the HGS-12 and the DT SC1 sound very similar at lower volumes is because the DT SC1 is not distorting too badly at low volume. If you keep your peak bass SPL below about 90-95 dB, I'm sure the DT would be an acceptable performer.

    For HT, most enthusiasts listen at around 10 clicks under Reference Level. This is generally described as "comfortably loud" with vocals in the 70-80 dB range, and the occasional bass SPL peak in the 105-110 dB range. Even at these still reasonable levels, I'm sure the Velo 18 will convincingly walk away from the DT in the subjective quality of the bass.

    Push it to Reference Level where you are now asking for 115-120 dB bass peaks - the big Velo 18 will hang strong - staying loud, clean, and deep all the way. On the other hand, the DT would probably be on its way to the Emergency Room.

    I wasn't flaming you or the DT product as much as I was flaming DVD Etc. for giving the two subs the same performance rating. That's like saying the Chevy Cavalier and the Corvette are equally comfortable on the highway at 45 mph.

    Regardless, I'm glad you enjoy are are satisfied with the sound quality of your DT SC1 at lower playback volumes and that it serves your needs well.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  7. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    __________________________________________________ __________
    Push it to reference level where you are now asking for 115-120db bass peaks- the big Velo 18 will hang strong-staying loud, clean and deep all the way. On the other hand, the DT would probably be on it's way to the emergency room._____________________________________________ __________

    Yes, Yes and Yes. A worthy subs anechoic numbers will surpass much that is discussed in many Threads and can handle the more extreme levels that we might demand of it from time to time. SPL is only half of the equation imo.
     

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