Subwoofer recommendations needed

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by MarkStash, Jan 8, 2004.

  1. MarkStash

    MarkStash Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    So I've built most of my first HT. Here's what I've got so far:

    Denon 3803 Receiver
    Infinity IL-40s floors front
    Infinity Center Channel Speaker
    Infinity Alpha 2 floors surround and rear

    I have an old, cheap Sony sub that is not pulling it's weight. Without spending a fortune, can ya'll offer suggestions for what I ought to consider for a sub? Also, how do I go about finding a reputable HT setup/calibration pro in my area? Thanks in advance.

    Mark
     
  2. Philip>L

    Philip>L Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just got 20-39 PCi+ from SVSubwoofers (dot come).

    It's fantastic.

    Get yourself a copy of a calibration disk like Digital Video Essentials or Avia and a radio shack sound level meter...
     
  3. Rick Hilst

    Rick Hilst Extra

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the $800-$1000 range, the most popular subs on these forums tend to be the SVS box (PB2-ISD) and cylinder (such as the PCi+) and the Hsu box (VTF-3) and cylinder (TN-1220) subs.

    Another sub that looks promising but isn't quite here yet is the UFW-12 from av123.
     
  4. Robb Roy

    Robb Roy Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mark,

    What is your budget? How big (in cubic feet) is your room? Does it include large openings to other rooms? Do you listen to really low music like pipe organ music? What percentage of movies to music do you listen to? How loud do you listen to these sources? Is there a specific finish to the sub that is absolutely required? Answers to these questions will help folks make proper recommendations for you.

    -Robb

    PS. I admire your choice in speakers and receiver. I'm currently running BAs, but have owned a number of Infinity speakers, and really like them.
     
  5. MarkStash

    MarkStash Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Philip:

    I'll check it out. Ordered DVE on 12/24 and still waiting for delivery (apparently back-ordered) with my Radio Shack Sound Level Meter locked and loaded....thanks.

    Robb Roy:

    Room is fairly large (24 X 16). Unfortunately, yes large opening to foyer and large entrance to dining room, cathedral ceilings (16' at the peak). Rock music, reggae, vocalists mostly.....some classical, some jazz. Split is probably about a 50/50 between music and movies. I'm running a progressive scan DVD that handles SACD and DVD-A and I listen to everything on the loud side. Budget is hard to say.....I'm not cheap but I can be had. If I could get away with spending $300, I'd do it in a heartbeat. In fact, a guy will sell me a new Infinity 120S for $300 - new. Maybe I oughta go back to him and just get it.....

    Thanks-

    Mark
     
  6. Robb Roy

    Robb Roy Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mark,

    I'm not sure what sub you mean there. Do you mean the 1200s? If yes, then $300 is an excellent price for that sub, but I doubt it will provide the bass the rest of your system deserves (especially in such a large space). It will probably be fine with your taste in music, but will lack that low to sub-20 Hz response in more and more DVD movies. If you're willing to go a bit more, I'd look at some of the subs Rick mentioned. My personal favorite for customer service and bang for the buck is SVS, but offerings from Hsu or Velodyne will also fill that room better than that Infinity I'll bet.

    -Robb
     
  7. Minesh Patel

    Minesh Patel Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know the particular sub your looking at, but I gotta say, I think you might be disappointed. I have a room similar to yours (14x23x9) with large openings to the rest of the house (probably ~10,000 cubic feet), and my SVS PB2 Plus ($1,300) gets the house moving.

    I'm talking about feel the floor shake & rumble like a giant just jumped off a tree next to you. At 10 dB below reference on my Anthem, I'm hitting peaks of around 105-110 dB during the Apollo 13 launch with the gain turned up to the 1/3 position.

    I played around with my old BIC Venturi sub (12" driver, 170 watt amp) and that poor sucker was begging for mercy at volume levels well below 95 dB. Actually, it was literally screaming for me to stop, what with the sub bottoming & all (not a pleasant sound).

    In a room that large, I'd seriously recommend you look into a more powerful solution, perhaps even a DIY sub coupled with a used amp. I'm sure you can search for any number of useful threads in this vein.
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do a search on the Velodyne CHT-15, relatively bargain sub with good performance. Beyond that, the world of Bass is your oyster....

    Let us know what you decide to buy for sure.
     
  9. MarkStash

    MarkStash Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Robb/Minesh/John:

    I have counted on help from folks like you on this site. That's why I have found it to be so valuable. You've given me plenty to go on. I'll get busy doing some more research and see what's what. If/when I decide I'll definitely let you know. Again, thanks.

    Mark
     
  10. Andy F

    Andy F Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2001
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    for $300 new, i haven't heard anything better than the velodyne VX10GY.

    You may want to check it out.
     
  11. MarkStash

    MarkStash Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Help! Here's the current breakdown:

    Velodyne CHT-15 - 15" subwoofer
    Frequency Response: 23-120 Hz +-3 dB High Pass Crossover (6 dB/octave slope): 80Hz or 100Hz
    Low Pass Crossover (12 dB octave, 24 dB ultimate): 40Hz-120Hz (adjustable)
    Auto On/Off Dynamic Power: 750 watts RMS Power: 300 watts Magnet: 70 oz. Voice Coil: 2 1/2" copper Inputs: Line-level and speaker-level Outputs: Line-level and speaker-level Crossover bypass: Subwoofer Direct Cone: Reinforced fiber Cabinet (H/W/D): 21" x 18.5" x 22.75" Weight: 83 lbs. Warranty: 2 years (parts & labor) Finish: Black vinyl
    Sale price: $499.00 + delivery (highwaydeals)

    Infinity Interlude 120S
    Woofer: 12" C.M.M.D
    Frequency Response (±3dB): 28Hz - 150Hz
    Crossover Frequency: 50Hz - 150Hz continuously variable (24 dB/octave)
    Amplifier Power (RMS): 500 watts
    Dimensions (H x W x D): 17-1/2" x 17-1/4" x 19-3/4" (44.5cm x 43.8cm x 50.2cm)
    Price from individual (new unit): $300.00 + $50 delivery

    SVS PB2-ISD
    Twin 12" SVS "Improved Standard Drivers" (ISD)
    SVS designed, full-featured 600 watt BASH (R) digital switching amp
    Selectable 16Hz, 20Hz or 25Hz tuning with included port plugs
    Variable subsonic filter (16Hz, 20Hz or 25Hz)
    Size: 18" wide, 25" tall and 28" deep. Weight: 115 pounds
    Price: $899 plus $99 delivery
    (from SVS direct)

    So, three different subs, three different sizes, three very different price ranges. I'm having a hard time finding hard specs on the SVS...may just be tired. If I had all the money in the world it would be the SVS. If you have a minute to peruse these, I'd welcome your thoughts.

    Mark
     
  12. John S

    John S Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    5,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    I still think the Velodyne CHT-15 is the best under $500 subwoofer out there.
     
  13. Ernest Yee

    Ernest Yee Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2003
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mark, you might save some money on the SVSs by getting a PC+ cylinder variant. You should get a B-stock to further save you money. I've never heard anyone that's really seen any blemishes on those. Good way to save another $50 and make the SVS more affordable to you.
     
  14. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2002
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have heard all three subs you mention basically and from my bass quest. I would have to recommend the PB2-ISD. Being a previous dual Velodyne ct-150 owner, I can whole heartily say this. The extra money this would cost would be money well spent imo. It very possibly could be a big savings in the long term and a much more satisfied bass experience.

    The Velodyne is a very good sub to be sure and has my respect for what it's worth, at the right price. It is not the sub the PB2-ISD is though. In the lower hz region that most of us bass lovers find so interesting.> It would take more than a few CHT-15s to perform at the level of just one of SVS's first offerings, which would be considered a toy by what they have to offer now.

    At the expense of sounding redundant, here is a list that you might find interesting if you have not run across it before? The SVS you see towards the top of the list is the first offering they came out with and would not compare to the PB2-ISD. ISD stands for Improved Standard Driver which the list does not reflect. ISD hadn't happened yet.

    http://members.cox.net/frankcarter/T...Sub%20Data.htm

    Granted this list is not a tell-all but can't be discarded either.

    Yip! Imo the extra $300 or so is $$ well spent. Granted, I would still be happy with my previous dual set-up up to this day if it weren't for I stepped out and decided to see what these SVS's were all about. I never have sent one back[​IMG]
     
  15. Robb Roy

    Robb Roy Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mark,

    You're right -- those are three very different subs. If your goal, however, is to get to 20 Hz at loud volumes in your size space with minimal distortion, the PB2-ISD is your only real choice from that list, in my opinion. Keep in mind, too, that SVS is known for bang for the buck (and great customer service) so that should give you an idea of how it compares with those other units given it's the most expensive, and neither of those other subs are necessarily known as bang for the buck companies (admittedly, you're getting great prices on all of them). My guess is you'd be disappointed with the Infinity (and remember I love their speakers) and taking it back ASAP, happy with that Velodyne, and ecstatic with that SVS.

    -Robb
     
  16. MarkStash

    MarkStash Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, it seems that the SVS is the consensus pick. If everyone who has helped could each send me $100, I'll have that critter ordered this evening.

    Anyone have any experience or input on the Aperion products?

    SPECIFICATIONS - Intimus S-12
    Dimensions 20.5" H x 15" W x 21.5" D
    Weight 66 lbs.
    Impedance 4 Ohms
    Amp Power(Continuous) 250 Watts)
    Amp Power(Maximum) 400 Watts
    Frequency Response 20 Hz to 180 Hz (view graph)
    Low Pass Crossover Variable from 40-160 Hz
    Phase Adjustment Variable from 0 to 180 degrees
    Volume Control Variable
    Enclosure Type Ported
    DRIVER SPECIFICATIONS
    Nominal Impedance 4 Ohms
    Voice Coil Resistance 4.2 Ohms
    Nominal Power 250 Watts
    Short Term Max Power 600 Watts
    Long Term Max Power 300 Watts
    Music Power 250 Watts
    Frequency Range 28~500 Hz
    Free Air Resonance 25 Hz
    Voice Coil Diameter 38.5 mm
    Voice Coil Height 52 mm
    Air Gap Height 8 mm
    Voice Coil Inductance 3.48 mH
    Effective Cone Area 530 CM2
    Moving Mass (incl,air) 100 g
    Magnet Weight 1.05 Kg
    VAS 125.5 ltr
    Qms 4.19
    Qes 0.42
    Qts 0.38

    Free shipping, 30 day trial, $599

    Mark
     
  17. Robb Roy

    Robb Roy Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mark,

    Ernest made a very good point of looking at some of the other offerings from SVS. The PCi (probably a closer comparison to that Aperion than anything else from SVS) and plus lines are cheaper than the PB2-ISD. An option for you would be to pick up a single PCi or PC+ now and supplement it with a second one down the road. The PB2-ISD is just the single sub solution that will most likely suit you for a very long time in such a huge space for the least amount of money (it could very well be the best bang for the buck offering they have). I can't emphasize enough that such a large space works against subwoofer purchases.

    If all of the subwoofers can be taken/sent back, you could always buy all of them. You could try them all out for a couple of weeks, and send back the losers (be sure to give it a couple of weeks since flat bass has been hard for some to get used to, and you wouldn't want to get stuck with a sub with bloated mid-bass you'll only be replacing in short order).

    -Robb
     
  18. Dave Corbitt

    Dave Corbitt Extra

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2000
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Whiting, NJ
    Real Name:
    Dave Corbitt
    Aperion has a free return policy if not satisfied. The flatness, power, and finish are exceptional, however, your space is huge and my own experience with my Aperion S12 may not fully translate to your cavernous room. My own theater room is smaller (12 x 14 x 8) than yours but my Aperion is the best sounding sub I have ever heard in my space. Flatness down to 20 Hz is very impressive.

    Dave
     
  19. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    If you're not afraid of cutting a hole in your wall and DIYing, and you have accomodating space, nothing beats an Infinite Baffle subwoofer.
     

Share This Page