$$$ Subwoofer project. Need some serious advice

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Anthony_Gomez, Jul 29, 2002.

  1. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable, but no expert by any means, so I a reaching out to the EXPERIENCED out there for their opinions.
    This project is INTENDED to be my LAST subwoofer I will need/want for a long long time, ...so I need to be very happy with it.
    I currently Have a pair of BPD1503's that are in a sonotube. While this sub is awesome, it is hard to integrate with my minimonitors, The EGO's.
    Here is the other subwoofer equipment I currently own.
    BFD, Crown K2, and a Linkwitz Transform (I can easily swap out the values for any driver/box combo).
    I will only run my subs sealed since I use my system 50/50 for music and will use a Linkwitz transform and have plenty of power to back it.
    I plan on getting the Outlaw ICBM to handle all the bass management and will XO at 100hz.
    I also plan on building an adjustable phase circit if I need it
    Option 1:
    Single UBER 15 in 45L sealed with a LT
    Option2:
    4x Adire Shive with 2 drivers per stereo subwoofer at 45L shared per side each with stereo LT's (will have to built another LT circuit)
    Option3:
    A single Aurasound Mobile Reference 15.4 with an LT in 45L
    Option 4:
    A pair of Aurasound Mobile Reference 12.4 running stereo with LT's (will have to build another LT circuit. They are the OEM ones that will be identical except for the paint
    Option 5:
    Use a single or stereo pair of TC sound Drivers. Click here for some more details.
    Option 6:
    ????????
    Drivers will cost me anywhere from $350-700,and the additional LT circuit, another 50-60 (including the case that I will move the electronics into.
    If I go with Stereo Subs, they wil also serve as stands for my L/R mains. (roughly 13x26x15 external)
    One additional serious consideration is, should I keep the Crown K2 (this is very hard to give up) in exchange for a pair of HS500's from Adire. These will have plenty of power per stereo side and will take care of the phase. ..and I might be able to wire in the LT circuit directly into them.
    ANYBODY WANT A DUAL BPD1503 sub and enclosure in about 1 month=)[​IMG]
     
  2. Bill Fagal

    Bill Fagal Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    0
    But are you living in the last HOUSE you'll need/want for a long time?[​IMG] If so, in-floor/wall/ceiling IBs seem to offer unbeatable bang for the buck/boom for the room.
    Bill
    (please note: by using the word "boom" I was not in any way disparaging IBs' potential for truly superior transient response. In truth, resistively damped alignments featuring potentiometers let you dial Q for quick quality or quacky quantity.)
     
  3. I am in gradschool and live in on-campus apartments....so i don't think I can tear into the walls=)

    I probably will not be moving into a house for another 4-5 years.
     
  4. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Messages:
    1,798
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Real Name:
    Jeff Lam
    Isn't that what you said about your dual 1503?[​IMG]
     
  5. yup...and they would have been...if they were easier to integrate at 100hz. The inductance is just not working with me with that high of an XO.
     
  6. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anthony,
    Do you have a crossover like the paradigm x30 or energy Eac? It has a phase adjustement that might be worthwhile. Also have you considered a BFD to take down any room peaks? Both options are cheaper than building a new sub and might just help you blend with the mains.
     
  7. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Messages:
    1,798
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Real Name:
    Jeff Lam
    Ant,
    The BFD didn't help with that inductance hump??? Maybe you should try to x-over lower.
     
  8. The BFD did help a lot with the inductance hump, but the inductance is a two parter. You do get the hump, and you can bring it down, but because of the 1503's huge inductance, it takes a divebomb after 100hz. This ontop ot the electronic XO makes for a hole that is hard to fill. It just doesn't sound right with this driver mix. Now, if I had something like the 281's, no problem at all=)
    I can't really try a lower XO point because I am using a sealed 5.25" design. 80hz works, the problem will lie in the rapid roll off of the 1503 from 100hz on up. The EGO's are (iirc), down about 3db at 80hz (I think that is in room...sims show -6db at 80hz, but Geoffery has 3db). so that adds another drop if I use the active XO with fixed slopes (a multi slope 5.1 XO is pretty darn expensive)
    John, The biggest problem with the maelstrom is the box size.
    The other thing that may limit the maelstron and the Single UBER15 or AURA15 is that 100hz XO is localizable....hence the stereo sub/stands.
    Actually, there is a 3rd reason to go stereo sub/stands. I get some more floor space in my apartment[​IMG]
     
  9. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would it be possible to add a woofer or two to cover just the 80-120hz area. Like a 10inch woofer like the dayton mated with a 150watt amp. That way you could have the speaker-in-a-stand aproach and you could still keep the 1503's. Or is your budget coming from the sale of the BP1503? I will in the next few weeks have a completed 1503 in a ported enclosure and can give a good idea of how it matches with my mains.

    Also, with the amount of headroom from that sub and amp is it possible just to boost the 100hz area.
     
  10. The worst thing about serious plans on upgrading is the perpetual findins of other options =) (..such as the Titanic MKII's)
    I could boost the 100hz region, but it would make the 1503 more localizable. ..I could do as you said and look into adding a driver and keeping the 1503s. Part of my budget was with selling the 1503 sub (I don't think it would be too hard to sell..atleast the drivers)
    Please do share your 1503 experience! Just besure you have a heavy enough enclosure or it WILL dance in the room[​IMG]
     
  11. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tony,
    Before I built my A/V-1's (with A/V-1+'s soon to follow) I was using my ACI Emeralds with my dual SV12 subs which are sealed and act as stands. My receiver has a fixed 2nd order crossover at 100Hz so the dual subs definitely helped with localization problems. The down side I had was the same as yours. The little Vifa 5.25" drivers just didn't have the output I wanted in the 80-200Hz range. The A/V-1's have definitely helped that out quite a bit, but still don't mate as well as my buddy's Jaguars with those awesome 7" Scan-Speak woofers.
    Anyway, what I wanted to do was build a pair of dual SV10 subs. It's the best 10" driver I've seen for small, sealed enclosures. Dual 10's had a Qtc=.6 in a 3ft^3. They were less efficient than other drivers such as the Titanic MKII 10" but actually had 3dB more output at 20Hz than the Titanic. If they were still available 2 dual SV10 enclosures is the way I would go. Too bad Subwoofers.com was sold off and the SV10 is no longer available to the DIY'er. [​IMG]
    Brian
     
  12. If I was to go the 10" route, I would get 4 of them and wire to 2ohms per side (K2 can handle it no problem). Since I will be running a Linkwitz transform, I don't really need to worry about the QTC/boxsize/f3 issue.
    The nice thing about the MKII's is their basket venting, and their mounting ring....The rubber gasket is cosmetically superior for surface mountint IMO.

    the 5w4252's do pretty good down to 100hz (arguably 80hz),...so they might extend a bit further than the P13's do in Emeralds.
     
  13. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tony,
    That's what I was talking about. Two drivers in each cabinet! [​IMG] And you're correct, using an LT negates the need for naturally flat response down low.
    Concerning the Emeralds, they actually use the M13SG.
    Brian
     
  14. Mark Seaton

    Mark Seaton Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 1999
    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    0
    Real Name:
    Mark Seaton
    With such a high XO frequency, an XBL^2 motor makes the most sense. The HT 15" Adire is working on would be about ideal. Why not use two in stereo sealed boxes? As nice as the idea of subs for stands sounds, realize it will always end up as a compromise in a closed room. The best place for bass will not be the best place for your mains. At least with the BFD you can do a good bit to force it to work out.
     
  15. Mark, while sub stands forces placement, I think i would be able to make it work considering the BFD has stereo control. If I was to do stereo subs, where else would I put the subs?

    The only otherway to make a sub non-localizable xo'd at 100hz is to use a sub/tvstand option. This wouldn't be a problem if I went with the Aurasound drivers (MR15.4) as they are inherently shielded. ..but this too forces placement.

    If I was to do a single 15, it WOULD be either the AuraSound MR15.4 or the UBER15. That is a tough choice if you ask me! (I can get the Auras at a price better than the listed MSRP).

    If I was to run stereo, I could still do the UBER 15's, but it would call for an interesting box, but it could be done. Alternately, a pair of MR12.4's or even a Quad of Dayton MKII 10's would seem to work well.

    how well does sidefiring work at 100hz?
     
  16. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Messages:
    1,591
    Likes Received:
    0
    I say: Dual Adire Uber15s (opposed to cancel out mechanical forces) in as large of a box you can manage. If you can do an IB, then go for it. Use the K2 and if you can, buy another high power amp and use it for the other driver. If your box is big enough you won't need the LT. That should be good for 120db+.
     
  17. Singel UBER 15= 45-50L sealed. No oposing drivers.

    Stereo=single UBER15/side. No opposing.

    I cannot do an IB in my apartment, and I have to use small boxes. (45-60L max per cab ..same with mono sub)
     
  18. I think if I am going to spend this kind of money, I might as well use a driver with an advanced motor system.

    The UBER 15 has a very flat BL and a low inductance (about 3-4mh).

    The Aurasound MR drivers have a fairly flat BL and have a VERY low inductance (
     

Share This Page