Subwoofer Decision crunchtime

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Allen Marshall, Feb 10, 2004.

  1. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    PB2-Plus vs PB2-Ultra

    I've never even heard a real subwoofer in a house before, the only bass i've ever experienced before is that of six 8" subs and two 6 1/2" subs in different positions of a room, which means a bunch of speakers working together. Now givin that information im pretty damn sure im gonna be very very very impressed with PB2-Plus, im trying not to build it up way way way to much or might actually expect something crazier then it can do. now for someone like me is the price difference between these 2 speakers really worth it? the PB2-Ultra's price makes it alittle harder to get and plans keep getting pushed back on account of it, but if i finally decided i wanted the Plus...well i would order it right this second. I guess a good way of putting it is if a guy who knows nothing about speakers and never heard bass in his life was going to get one of these speakers and could easily afford the less costly one and could get the other one but it would be a royal pain the keister, what would you tell him to get.

    Does one create more bass then the other or is this just a simple contest of quality of the bass? would two PB2-Plus's, one in front and one in back do better then one PB2-Ultra? I have an idea of what the sub is going to sound like but im still gonna be impressed, just like i have a great idea of how a movie theater is gonna sound when i go but there's still that suprise everytime. I fear i maybe picturing alittle more then these subs are though?
     
  2. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    You know Allen> I don't think you would have any regrets going with the PB2-PLUS. Chances are you will not be running your system so hard that it would be a benefit. If the look of the 2+ is ok with you save your $$ and know that you have yourself one very nice performing sub.

    If your the type that puts a high premium on esthetics (if you like the stained wood look) or just likes to keep upgrading to upgrade then maybe the ULTRA would be the better choice then.

    Crunch time! What will Allen do?????[​IMG]
     
  3. Luitz

    Luitz Stunt Coordinator

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  4. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    My vote would be for the PB2+. A significant portion of the price difference is found in the finish of the cabinet. If the looks are very important then consider the Ultra. Otherwise (from what I've read), you'll only notice a difference in the two sub at very low frequency and at very high SPL. As for two PB2+'s, I don't think I'd recommend that unless you have a very large room. In one of the reviews on SVS's website a reviewer commented that because he was in a fairly small room the sub was pressurizing the room to some extent and started to give him a headache because it pushed so much air.
     
  5. Chester II

    Chester II Stunt Coordinator

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    Allen dude,

    I totally agree with your leaning towards the HSU VTF-3. You can't go wrong there...good job

    Dude,

    Chester
     
  6. Keith Hyde

    Keith Hyde Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Alan,

    New owner of a PB2+. Just found the spot for it in my small room - just left of the right main - so it is pretty much right out there in the open, screaming "Look at ME!!" I put a heavy potted plant on it (no holes!!!) and a candle on the main - built it in to the room a little. Looks aren't too important to me. If I move to a larger space and find an out of the way spot for it, great. My current configuration did make me appreciate the nice wood grain option, for the mere fact that it would make the sub a little more subtle on the eye instead of the "Jesus Christ what is THAT THING!?" that newcomers to the house say.

    So nothing new here. 99% an aesthetic choice. And a matter of how deep your pockets are. At an extra grand or two - I couldn't swing it. But I am a sucker for beautiful wood cabinetry - if I'd had the money... maybe, just maybe...
     
  7. Rogelio D

    Rogelio D Agent

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    Allen,

    I debated the same decision regarding 1 PB2+, 2PB2+ or one PB2-Ultra.

    In general, 2PB2+ stacked, will have about a 4db edge over one PB2-Ultra according to SVS. If you locate one PB2+ front and one back you may have some tricky phase issues to deal with.

    Now, unless you're listening at very high volumes, as others have said, I don't think you'll notice a difference between the Ultra and the PB2+.

    Go with what SVS recommends, they won't try to oversell you. If you haven't asked them, email them and give them your room dimensions, listening tastes, etc.

    I went with 2PB2+, but one would have been way more than enough. SVS said I only needed 1 PB2isd, but I guess I'm a glutton for excess. [​IMG]
     
  8. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    The drivers alone are responsible for a $600 premium. The PEQ and heavier duty amp is probably another $50-$100. That leaves around $400-$450 for the furniture grade finish.

    Performance wise - the two will sound very similar. They have the same tune points, enclosure volume, and port size. Personally, I can tell the two drivers apart, but they are extremely close in SQ and anyone could happily live with either.

    From an SPL standpoint, the PB2-Ultra will ultimately be able to deliver around 1.5 dB more maximum output, but both are so incredibly clean and powerful it would be hard to imagine a scenario where the extra output of the PB2-Ultra would be fully exploited.

    The performance "value" of the PB2+ is certainly higher than the PB2-Ultra. If you are looking for maximum bang for the buck and can accept the more pedestrian (but also more durable) finish, then go for the PB2+.

    OTOH, if you really value/need the furniture grade finish, and are willing to pay a sharp premium for the TV-12 drivers, and think the PEQ would be helpful in taming room modes...the PB2-Ultra might be just the ticket.

    All boils down to priorities and discretionary funds. [​IMG]
     
  9. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    WOW

    that really helps alot, thank guys im pretty sure im gonna go with the PB2+ and im gonna order it tomorrow [​IMG]


    about this HSU VTF-3, is it as good/better then the PB2+, 250 watts and one 12" ?

    are there any good subwoofer companies in that price range other then Veloydne, or any subwoofers for $2,000 or less that would be better then the PB2+?
     
  10. Jesse Sharrow

    Jesse Sharrow Supporting Actor

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    My opinion... and Im following this same thing. If you can afford the better one.... DO IT. Its more head room and it helps eliminate the "what if's" and the "upgrade bug".

    But I just looked at the difference in price. Me personally I would just go for the Plus. I am acctually looking into the PC-Ultra. Wich is much cheaper.
     
  11. Nick Breckon

    Nick Breckon Stunt Coordinator

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  12. WayneO

    WayneO Supporting Actor

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    Allen,

    If you still haven't ordered yet, I have a PB2+ that I would gladly let you demo. I live right next to you in Oak Forest. PM me if you want to set something up.
     
  13. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    Ok Still havent ordered. I have a few questions, Rogelio when you say 2 PB2-Pluses stacked do you really mean one on top of the other? Another thing is what's the difference in sound between the cylinders and boxes? Would i get better bass out of Dual CS-Pluses with 1000 watt amp?

    How come i dont see any discussion on the SS and why do they call it the SS? All the Cylinders have just one 12" in them, is the 12" at the top or bottom and whats the advantage of the huge tube?

    Basically i can spend about $2,000 so if i can get something for that much, better then PB2+, thats what i want to go for, except the Ultra, to little performance difference in to big of a price difference.

    And lets say i had two CS-Pluses is it ok 2 put them right next to each other? (im trying to picture it in my room and i can either put them right next to each other in the left hand corner or put one in the left hand corner and put the other in the back behind the seating area)

    Or hell if i save up until about May or June i can probably afford a B4+ with a Samson amp, what would you guys do here?
     
  14. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    Stay with the PB2+. I have had duals several times and all you wind up doing is tweeking alot. I am so glad they put out the PB2+ as my dual sub days are long over.
     
  15. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Allen,
    Whichever sub you decide on, make sure you calibrate it. That is part of your speaker problems from your other threads.
    There is another thread which compared 2 HSU VTF3's vs 1 Pb2+ and there was no comparison IMHO. The Acoustic-Visions.com Denali would be worth looking at as well. The cost would be right at $2,000 with shipping.

    Having heard a dual CS+ setup before, I'd be willing to bet and from what I've been told that the output would be roughly the same maybe leaning towards the CS+. I will let Edward answer it more concretly.
     
  16. Rogelio D

    Rogelio D Agent

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    Yes, Allen

    I have 2 PB2+ one on top of the other.

    You could get one PB2+ and then get another later if you wanted more and it would still be less $ than B4+.

    I'd say one of the main differences in cylinders and box subs is the cylinders are easier to move around because they don't weigh as much. Also, the footprint of a cylinder is smaller. Both produce great bass. Some people can't get one or the other past the significant other because of aesthetics.

    If you're not in a hurry, Shane mentioned the Denali. Craigsub will be doing a comparison between it and the PB2+ and you could wait and see how they stack up against each other.

    Email SVS if you haven't already done so and they'll help you sort out the choices between their subs.
     
  17. Keith Hyde

    Keith Hyde Stunt Coordinator

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    Allen - buy just 1 2+ for starters. If you need more, fine, order the second. Otherwise drop that leftover money into a healthy center, surround, or equipment upgrade. Save it away for a new TV...

    Just talking more bang for your buck.
     
  18. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    can two PB2+s hit a lower frequency then just one? Can you hook an amp up to a PB2+? is there a big difference in 1000 watt sub amp to a 1500 watt amp in a sense of how many watts most people actually use when watching a movie?

    Whats the signifigance of the art of piling the PB2+s on top of each other instead of next to each other or near by?

    What frequency can the B4+ hit?
    What frequency can the CS+ 16-46 hit?
    What frequency can the PB2+ hit?

    Will SVS ever use something bigger then 12" subs?
    Is it safe to say i wouldnt care if my sub didnt produce any noise below 18hz?

    Why are sub amps so cheap compared to speaker amps?

    Whats the watt peak for the CS+ 16-46? when you get dual you just use the same amp to power both? can do seperate sub amps power them instead for more watts?
     
  19. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    gotcha
     

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