Subs as speaker stands... design ideas?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Al Garay, Nov 18, 2002.

  1. Al Garay

    Al Garay Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi,
    I'm looking for designs/plans to build sub enclosures that would serve as stands for Ellis 1801's, similar to Wilson Watt/Puppies.
    Is this a bad idea? I'm mainly interested in a seamless integration with the 1801's for music... which I understand means it should be a sealed design.
    The drivers I'm considering are:
    Soniccraft SCC300 $150
    http://www.soniccraft.com/Drivers/scc300.htm#
    Peerless XLS 12" $145
    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=16239&DID=7
    Thanks for your advice,
    Al
    PS. One of the designs I'm considering is for the Critical Q Sub-Woofer, http://www.vacuumstate.com/sub/
     
  2. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2001
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I could be wrong but I thought I read that Brian Bunge built two Shiva's as stands???? Judging from the performance of my Tempest that would be the first route I'd consider personally.

    Brian? Is that true or did I just make that up?

    Darren
     
  3. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I know Charles W and Eric Jones have both made speaker stands out of subwoofer enclosures. Both designs are quite nice I might add.
    As for choosing a driver, I would also look at the Dayton 12" Titanic MKII.
     
  4. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 1999
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My favorite driver for sealed boxes is the Adire DPL 12. In 3-5ft^3, just a killer driver. Goes very deep w/o the need for eq (much deeper, btw, than Shiva), and is a very low-distortion driver.
     
  5. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Darren,

    You're partially right! I'm using dual ACI SV12's. I've tried to swap them out with DVC 12's but the SV12's seem to be permanently attached! I took out the screws and the driver seems fused to the cabinet. I cranked up the volume but the driver played as if the screws were still holding it in. I guess the paint and the foam gasket are attached to one another!
     
  6. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2001
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  7. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Darren,
    The only thing my wife has said "No!" to is my suggestion to build Alphas for the living room! [​IMG]
     
  8. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2001
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brian,
    Yeah, I got a no on that one too [​IMG] My wife is VERY flexible on audio equipment though, she likes HT nearly as much as I do. She just does a sanity check on me, we really have no room for what we've got, two more subs as stands would just make the room look like a big speaker...hmmm... that ain't a bad idea [​IMG] Next house in a year or two will have a dedicated theater where I can go absolutely nuts.
    Can't wait!!!
    Darren
     
  9. Jay_H

    Jay_H Auditioning

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One thing to think about is room response. Most rooms play havoc with bass response just above where room gain starts to mean something (say 40-60Hz in a typical American living room, in a car more like 100-250Hz). So you won't get optimal bass performance from your subs. You'll also lose the massive gains that come from wall- or corner- loading.

    A better approach, to my mind, is to build a speaker with enough cone area to reach deeply and authoritatively into the midbass, down to 50Hz or so, and supplement with an optimally-placed (usually in a corner) subwoofer.
     
  10. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jay,

    Actually, corner placement is really only optimal for loudest bass. It isn't necessarily the best place for smoothest response. And 2 or 4 subs placed properly will give best overall performance.
     
  11. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2000
    Messages:
    884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    JG,

    The DPL12 has less Xmax than the Shiva so how can it play lower with same/less distortion in a same Q sealed cab?

    GM
     
  12. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2000
    Messages:
    884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    >Is this a bad idea? I'm mainly interested in a seamless integration with the 1801's for music... which I understand means it should be a sealed design.
    ====
    No, but truly seamless to me means converting the vent to Aperiodic to lower the speaker's Qt down to ~0.5. This will necessitate using a considerably higher XO point and consequently a larger midbass driver 'stand' in a Qtc = 0.5 that will go low enough to blend into a corner loaded sub with a LR XO/~40-80Hz to fill in the lowest 2-3 octaves depending on the driver.

    You're probably not willing to go this route, so the only viable option I can think of at the moment is to corner load a sealed sub with a Qtc ~ = to the inverse of the room/corner gain with an 8th order LR at whatever XO point works best in-room since the 1801's F3 is around 40Hz and you want to keep the XO point low to ensure you can't localize it and also to kill the vent's output below Fb to keep distortion low.

    GM
     
  13. Jay_H

    Jay_H Auditioning

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brian's words:


    Well, you're right, but. It's true that a single corner sub drives all room modes, which could lead to some pretty nasty response. Most of the time, I've found that a single sub in the corner works best for a single sub. If we're talking about multiple subs, I like to see one still in the corner, and one to balance out the room-modes. (That often works well in the nearfield.)

    There's also something to be said for the David "DUMAX" Clark method: decide where you want images and put the speakers there. That would mean massing subwoofers towards the left on the back wall of the room if you listen to orchestral music. I've never actually set up a system like that (always had other things in that spot) but I wonder if it wouldn't be the most realistic.

    Peace,

    Jay
     

Share This Page