Subjective listening evaluation and/or comparison: VMPS Larger to SVS PB-2 Plus (1 Viewer)

[Robert_Gaither]

I bet most(if not all) people would prefer the unit that has all the real low bass filtered out on just about all popular music.

Agreed, when I've allowed people to come to my home for the first time and they saw a pair of tempests and shivaes in my theater most of them weren't too impressed with the music presentation (they were used to the "boost" most subs have) but were completely floored for movies. Accuracy may not sound as pleasing for most people for the short term, but there is a greater long term satisfaction with it.

 

[Roger Eckert]

Joe,
When you had your VMPS Larger, what size room were you dealing with, and how many openings into the room were there? I assume you are using your PB-2 Plus in the same room. How big an improvement did you notice over the Larger? Looing back, do you have any regrets having sold the VMPS?
What's the best thing about your PB-2 Plus?
Sincerely
Roger

 

[Mike Sloan]

I think CurtisSC thought he had you there...oh well....kind of interesting he took the time to go back and read old posts. There was another guy on these forums (who is over at AVS) that used to do that! A friend of mine just ordered a PB2+ and we will soon have the opportunity to compare it to "dual" VTF-3's...head to head...should elicit rich banter!

 

[Joe Wilmore]

The room as I mentioned before, is 24x21 with a 6' wide arch, leading into the dining room. So far, I do not regret anything about selling the VMPS. The PB2+ is the only sub that has rattled my windows, and filled the entire room with bass. As I said before, I was very surprised how much output you need to fill such a large room.

 

[Joe Wilmore]

Mike, you are definitely right. I went over the top when I first got the VMPS, because it was so good with music. However, I only watched 3 movies on the VMPS over a 4 month period, and I have already watched 5 in the first 2 weeks of owning the PB2+. Also on music, I am still adjusting to the lack of mid bass impact, but the voices and instruments are much clearer,

 

[CurtisSC]

I think CurtisSC thought he had you there...oh well....kind of interesting he took the time to go back and read old posts. There was another guy on these forums (who is over at AVS) that used to do that! A friend of mine just ordered a PB2+ and we will soon have the opportunity to compare it to "dual" VTF-3's...head to head...should elicit rich banter!

I had nothing. Just trying to get clarification. I had remembered some of his posts from before and thought it was strange. The name Joe Wilmore is easy to remember.

A PB2+ and dual VTF-3's should be interesting. Whose VTF-3's?

Mike have you had a chance to hear the VTF-3's?

 

[Roger Eckert]

Joe
Thanks for the review/update. I appreciate you taking the time to share your comparative analysis. For some reason I had the impression the VMPS Larger would be equal to or greater in output than the PB-2 Plus. You certainly have made it clear you don't feel that is the case. Available specs, as everyone probably knows, makes comparisons of these 2 subs on paper a bear.
I'm beginning to feel like my ordering the PB 2 Plus was a very good move up. I'm sure the PB-2 Ultra will offer even more whollup. Since that sub is still vaporware of sort(but not for long as I understand it), quite a bit more money, and unreviewed, the PB-2 Plus seems like the best logical choice for my leaky
music/HT room.
Sincerely
Roger

 

[Edward J M]

Curtis:

Mike owns the dual VTF-3.

Roger:

It has been well established the TV-12 driver has about a 1.5 dB maximum output advantage over the dB-12 driver.

The demographic looking to buy the PB2-Ultra (and I predict it will sell very well) will be as much interested in the furniture grade wood finish and the exclusivity/high technology of the TV-12 driver as in the fractionally better performance.

Now that my puppy is pretty much out of the "path of destruction" phase (refer to my PB2+ Review for details), I haven't ruled out an upgrade to a Jet Black PB2-Ultra myself.

But for your needs, the PB2+ will offer 90% of the performance of the PB2-Ultra for significantly less money. A perfect case of the law of diminishing returns.

 

[EdNichols]

I think Joe is emphasizing what I have read about VMPS. VMPS (based on what I have read) is better for music and SVS is better for movies. BTW I own a VMPS original (not the larger) and I will admit I would like to have more impact when watching movies. The larger is better I am sure in this respect. Anyway, my sub will rumble on LFE but it won't rattle the windows like Joe says his SVS will do. However, for music, which is about 80% of the time for me, the sub is so smooth and blends so well. It is a personal preference.

 

[EdNichols]

I think Joe is emphasizing what I have read about VMPS. VMPS (based on what I have read) is better for music and SVS is better for movies. BTW I own a VMPS original (not the larger) and I will admit I would like to have more impact when watching movies. The larger is better I am sure in this respect. Anyway, my sub will rumble on LFE but it won't rattle the windows like Joe says his SVS will do. However, for music, which is about 80% of the time for me, the sub is so smooth and blends so well. It is a personal preference.

 

[Mike Sloan]

I bet most(if not all) people would prefer the unit that has all the real low bass filtered out on just about all popular music.

That's the entire point! I would want a sub that has "flat/accurate" response to 25hz or less. There are a growing number of SACD's and DVD-A's that are masterfully mixed (especially anything released by AIX) that don't sound tubby and really provide that bottomless low end...while sounding "tight" in the mid bass regions. I have EQ'd an SVS 25-31PC-Plus and got it to sound very similar to a REL Storm. The point being is that the SVS is as tight as any of the....so called "musical" subs and you get this "perceived" characteristic by limiting it's ability to "troll the depths" and couple with the room! SVS's are tight if set up properly...but also can provide the goods in movies. Describing a sub as "musical" is akin to your friend telling you your "blind date" has a great personality....run away, run away...!

Curtis, I talked, influenced....ok...forced a buddy of mine to get the PB2-Plus (instead of the DefTech supercube) and now have a cool/fun opportunity to compare it directly to my "dual" VTF-3 setup....same room same position...same time,etc. I will run all subs native tune (all ports open)...if the SVS offering can hold it's own... it will be a huge cost/performance plus for the PB2-Plus over "twin VTF-3's (costing $1700.00) . This will be a seat of the pants, un-scientific, subjective comparison. I leave the Tech stuff for Edward JM...hetheman!

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>I will run all subs native tune (all ports open)...if the SVS offering can hold it's own... it will be a huge cost/performance plus for the PB2-Plus

 

[Mike Sloan]

We were ready to send off the PB-2isd but no one else seemed very interested in having their product compared to it at the time...oh well...

Did that surprise you? The so called sub "show-downs" in the big publications have been a joke!

This could be a biter/sweet experience for me...if the PB2-Plus can produce similar performance to "TWO" VTF-3's....I may have a fire sale shortly after! It also looks like HSU may discontinue their "pepple tech" finish on the VTF-3...so getting a third would be out of the question.
I think Twin PB2's would fit the bill in my "leaky" HT room...it may be fate!

 

[CurtisSC]

Come on you guys. I think everyone would rather have a non-partisan group do the comparison. The best comparison would be the STF-3 and the PB1-ISD. Same price point, same number of drivers, same shape. Lets get as close to apples to apples as possible.

Tom, if I could get my hands on a STF-3, would you send a PB1-ISD? Anybody would be welcome to come and help me compare in sunny Southern California. I can get some discount accomodations at a very nice beachside hotel in Hermosa Beach...very close to my home and some good nightlife.

Two drivers vs one driver will get you more output, which is a no brainer and the comparison that SVS supporters want. Bass quality is something that, clean and tight, is the subjective area that I would be interested in after hearing the 20-39PC+. I would gladly trade a few dbs for better sound quality.

I believe Paul Carleton of HTS is going to help facilitate a comparison of subs from each company.

 

[Mike Sloan]

Come on you guys. I think everyone would rather have a non-partisan group do the comparison.

No...I'll compare myself. Anyhoo, that is a different topic. I am interested solely in the performance differential between a "single" PB2-Plus and "dual" VTF-3's. The comparison will only be of interest to me since HSU has discontinued the VTF-3 and now is selling a more powerful and different looking version. I will post my subjective impressions, however. Curtis...I'll sell you my VTF-3's for a steal! What subs are you currently running?
I could care less about any turf war between SVS,HSU,Stryke,VMPS and the lot. I want bang for the buck...period. Whoever provides that get's my business!

 

[Edward J M]

Two drivers vs one driver will get you more output, which is a no brainer and the comparison that SVS supporters want.

More output, yes. But also lower distortion at any given sound pressure level.

The "fairness" in comparing a $950 dual driver SVS PB2-ISD to a $800 single driver Hsu VTF-3 is all a matter of perspective.

Maybe some would view a subwoofer that will deliver nearly twice the measurable performance for a 15% premium to be a spectacular performance value and capitalism at work. That is, unless you're on the losing end of things.

 

[CurtisSC]

More output, yes. But also lower distortion at any given sound pressure level.

Ed you know as well as I do that more drivers does not mean lower distortion. Look at mutiple driver speakers for an example.

Also there is an interesting thread over at AVS about distortion levels of a single driver Adire Sadhara vs the quad driver B4Plus.

And I agree, fairness is a matter of perspective. Why not throw out perspective and go with a comparison of the STF-3 and PB1-ISD? I think that will more easily show what each company offers without variables.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=331407

Anyways, Mike, I look forward to reading about your comparison, music and HT. I have the same finish VTF-3 as you do....but all I need is one though.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Curtis, you must be joking? Are you implying that you would less bias than Ed for example?

Ed, it's funny...we are comfortable having our $1199 subwoofer matched up against DUAL subwoofers from another company that cost about 50% more...but when it is $899 vs. $799...oh, now THAT isn't fair?..

Tom V.
SVS

 

[CurtisSC]

Tom...not at all, that's why I do not expect you to send me anything unless I pay for it.

Are you comfortable matching up your PB1-ISD with the STF-3? Let's take all the differences out of the equation. Yes you are comfortable with $1199 dual driver sub with a dual driver sub costing 50% more...dual for dual. Never said you do not offer value. The 20-39PC+ I had is a tremendous value...especially for HT needs.

How about comparing your $899 dual driver sub with your $825 single driver sub? What differences could a customer expect? What do you tell perspective customers that call and wonder which to get?

 

[Mike Sloan]

How about comparing your $899 dual driver sub with your $825 single driver sub? What differences could a customer expect? What do you tell perspective customers that call and wonder which to get?

I was getting ready to joust with Curtis...however...he has a valid point! I suppose the answer comes down to native tuning and output. The interesting comparison would be the PB2-ISD vs the 25-31PC Plus...same tuning. I think it would come down to looks and placement options...I would be willing to bet the PB2-ISD will best the 25-31PC-Plus. But getting back to the PB2+...if you have to purchase TWO VTF-3's to compete with "one" PB2-Plus...that is info I would like to have. I will also be listening to musicality and the "whole ball of wax." I will not be focused solely on max SPL's...it also needs to sound good. I listen to more Hi-Res music than movies...if truth be told! For my sanity and wallet...I hope the VTF-3's trounce the PB2 Plus....save me upgrade money I could put to those Outlaw monoblocks!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the reason SVS has such a rabid following is that they make a darn good product that fit's the bill for most who "actually" have heard them! Heck...I am a very vocal supporter of SVS and I DON"T EVEN OWN ONE!?@#$%^...just heard them. The VTF-3 is a great sub, as well. I really like them...but I have caught the dreaded sub disease...and I need more! I was contemplating getting a third VTF-3...thanks to Steve (and his 3 25-31's)...but alas, it looks like HSU has discontinued the "original" VTF-3.