Sub volume recommendations...

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Jon Musil, Aug 11, 2003.

  1. Jon Musil

    Jon Musil Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I just put together my first real HT and have a few, OK, several questions. Since I'm a newbie I'm sure most of the questions that follow will be embarrassing to me down the road when I know better! Please forgive my ignorance.

    FYI, I'm running a Pioneer Elite 43TX, MA gold ref LCRs as fronts with a MA silver LCR center, Audio Source in wall 3 way 8's as rears and a Velodyne HGS-12 sub. Oh, and the new 46" Sammy DLP TV.

    My questions are mainly about the sub since I've never had one before... The HGS-12 seems to dominate the system a bit now even though I have the volume set at 50%! I should mention the sub has been broken in, although in perfect condition, and the rest of the speakers have not been broken in YET!

    Now to the questions, should I/can I use line level inputs?
    It seems to require a pre-amp which I don't have, but would be willing to get if it made a significant difference.

    I have the speakers bi-wired now, should I utilize the 80Hz high pass output of the sub to bi-amplify the system? This would require the pre-amp right? Again, would it be a significant upgrade?

    What is a "normal" range volume setting for a 1250 watt servo controlled sub used for both HT and music in a system like mine?

    Perhaps tied to the previous volume setting question.. What should the reciever settings be at for the sub? 0 dB's or elsewhere +,-?

    To get the ideal amount of sub overlap on the the mains (the FR of the mains is 40hz-30Khz) where should I set the low-pass crossover? FYI, it has an infinitely variable setting range of 40 to 120 Hz?

    In the manual there is only two sentences on phase control with room for interpretation, where should I set it? 0 or 180? Or, does it simply come down to the ear test as the manual alludes?

    That's all, for now :b

    Thank you for your patience and indulgence!

    Most sincerely,
    Jon
     
  2. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2000
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sounds like you don't have Avia and the Radio Shack SPL meter. Calibrating by ear alone is a poor substitute for the proper tools.
     
  3. Curt C

    Curt C Agent

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jon,
    Install an audio interconnect cable from the subwoofer jack on the pioneer and use a "Y" splitter at the Velodyne end installed into both input jacks on the sub. Under speaker set up (Pioneer) call all your speakers small and indicate you have a subwoofer. On the sub, put the crossover switch in the "direct" position and phase at "0". With M/A speakers, the Velodyne volume control would normally be at ten or eleven o'clock, not 50%. If you're not getting adequate volume at that setting, raise the volume control for the subwoofer jack in the receiver. Velodyne's funtion best with plenty of input. This is the way I would set it up at least initially. Subwoofer placement is of course critical. I tend to use my ears for setting the bass level.
    Good Luck,
    Curt
     
  4. Chris Quinn

    Chris Quinn Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    double post [​IMG]
     
  5. Chris Quinn

    Chris Quinn Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You should use a crossover around 60hz for a speakers that go down to 40hz(the general rule of thumb is 20hz above lowest your speakers go). Are your front mains set to large in your receiver?
     
  6. Jon Musil

    Jon Musil Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the input!

    The new Avia is on order and I went by a RS yesterday for an spl meter and that store had been moved/closed!

    Curt, I do have the speakers set to small and I have a Y in the cable for 2 input connects too. By direct poisition of the crossover switch do you mean the "in" position? I'll try the phase at 0. There is no problem with volume, my concern was the opposite. Thanks again.

    If I set the crossover on the sub at 60Hz what should the reciever setting be? Chris, 60Hz was exactly were I had it set, based on what I thought was a reasonable overlap to avoid a hole.

    However, there is another thread about an A/R setup on the forum today where several guys say to set the sub x-over as high as it will go! That got me confused, as I thought letting this powerful sub do the bulk of the low frequencies and the other speakers handle the rest would be a better way to go....In fact, just yesterday I told my brother-in-law I thought he might be better of lowering his setting from 120 to 100Hz!

    Any thoughts on trying the line level input setup? Does that actually require a preamp or can my 43TX handle it?

    Thanks again all!
     
  7. Curt C

    Curt C Agent

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Jon,
    You've called your speakers small, that's good. If the Pioneer gives you crossover choices, go with 80hz. If it doesn't give you choices, then it's at 80hz (probably). Put the Velodyne crossover switch in the "out" position. This is the same as "direct". Your Pioneer is doing the crossover so there's no reason to have the Velo's crossover in the circuit also. The crossover dial (40-120) in the Velodyne is now defeated as it should be for this setup.
    There seems to be confusion about "preamp" and "line-level" hook up. They're one in the same. There are two ways to hook up a powered subwoofer. 1) Line level, also called low level and preamp level. 2) Speaker level, also called high level. Your HGS-12 only allows line level or preamp hook up via the rca jacks. You notice there are no speaker binding posts on the sub. When you hook the subwoofer jack on the Pioneer to the input jacks on the Velodyne, that is a preamp connection. It is mono and just sending out certain frequiencies but it is a preamp (line level) signal. There would be no advantage to feeding seperate left and right (preamp) signals to the sub and then sending those to the amp section of the Pioneer, (if the Pioneer had that capability) via the sub's output jacks. You're already accomplishing all of that in a more efficient way by your current hookup.
    I hope this helps.
    Curt
     
  8. Jon Musil

    Jon Musil Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Curt, thank you for the insight!

    Yesterday my sales rep at Showcase Home Entertainment recommended labeling all my speakers large!

    His reasoning was; on the small setting I would be losing a lot of quality low level mid bass performance from the other speakers and since they were very good quality speakers they/Showcase always recommends the large setting with them.

    What's a newbie to do? [​IMG]

    Of course I'll be getting the R.S. SLP meter and some software, Avia, to "see" what is the best setup.

    Thank You!

    Jon
     
  9. Curt C

    Curt C Agent

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jon,
    I feel your pain. There are pros and cons to everything in audio and a lot of people know a little bit and some know more. Since I'm local to you (Carefree) if you'd like to get more depth call me at 595-4715. I've been in audio for fifty years and can cover the bases with you if you'd like.
    Or give me your phone number and I'll call you. I own many Velodynes and would be happy to help you out.
    Curt
     
  10. Jon Musil

    Jon Musil Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Curt,
    Thanks for the generous offer! If I can make a little time this afternoon I will try to reach you. Unfortunately, we are having a party at our house tonight and I'm trying to get the last work related stuff done and a few honey do's taken care of before 5. Thanks again!
     
  11. Gordon Groff

    Gordon Groff Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  12. Rick_Brown

    Rick_Brown Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have read several posts in this forum in the past regarding the fact that you should set your receiver's sub level low, say -6 at least, and then use the sub's volume control when calibrating. Reason being that some receiver's can actually be driven into preamp overload if the receiver setting is too high.
     
  13. Jon Musil

    Jon Musil Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I picked up a digital spl meter last night to help with setup. Now for a few really basic (ie stupid) questions!

    I'm assuming the way to measure the spl's of the various speakers is to use the test tones.... correct?

    At what volume are the measurements taken.... reference?

    Is reference the 0dB level on receivers?

    If so, is that why industry convention, at least on higher end receivers, have the annoying (to me anyway) scale of volume that starts with negative dB's and moves to positive dB's?

    As always, thank you for the education!

    Embarrassed,
    Jon
     
  14. Rick_Brown

    Rick_Brown Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't go for reference levels unless you want to lose your hearing. Just do your calibration at a volume that you find comfortable. It doesn't matter what level you do it at as you are setting relative levels between channels that will stay in the same relativity no matter what volume you listen to later.
     
  15. Lee Carbray

    Lee Carbray Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     

Share This Page