Studio 60 owners-Any problems with sibilance??

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by John Dunlap, Jul 10, 2002.

  1. John Dunlap

    John Dunlap Stunt Coordinator

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    I've had my 60's for about a week now and they are nowhere near being broken in but I have observed some sibilance on certain source material. What I mean is that kind of "spitty" sound on S's and F's. A good example would be my James Taylor-Live at Beacon Theater DVD on the 2nd track where he sings "Wake up Ssssusssie, put your sshoes on..."

    I'm wondering if this phenomenon is related to the quality of the source material, the speakers not being broken in or perhaps I could use some better amplification. I am using a Marantz MM-9000 (not bi-wired) to power my Studio 60's and Studio CC. Maybe there is an amp out there that would tame the brightness a little better?? I'd love to hear your opinions. Thanks.
     
  2. Mark Austin

    Mark Austin Supporting Actor

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    Paradigm's are known to be a bright sounding speaker. Taming them can be an act in futility, at least it was for me and that's why I got rid of them. You could try a different amp, although I consider the Marantz to produce a slightly warm sound already. You may want to try some acoustical treatments to your room.
     
  3. Salvador

    Salvador Second Unit

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    i have studio 20's mated with a denon 3802 and i also experince *some* sibilance. When listening to Shakira's mtv unplugged performance for example, i notice sibilance in the closing lines in "Ojos Asi". When i bought the DVD and played the same material the sibiliance went away. So the source might have something to do with it also. But on any of the other musical material that i listen too sibiliance really isn't a problem.
     
  4. John Dunlap

    John Dunlap Stunt Coordinator

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    Salvador,

    My experience has been similar. I don't notice this on every CD/DVD, just certain ones. I'd like to believe that what I'm hearing is just the result of the 60's being a very "revealing" speaker.
     
  5. Mark Austin

    Mark Austin Supporting Actor

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    Revealing and sibilance are two very different things. There are speakers that are considered warm, but hyper revealing at the same time.

    The source or source material could also be accentuating your situation as well. Some cd/dvd players can be bright sounding, as well as many cd's.
     
  6. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I agree with Mark, my first question would be what is your source and what type of connection. The specific recordings may be at fault, but your gear and room may be adding to the issue. Speaker placement and alignment (toe) and room treatments may be necessary with studios. I have a firend who has 40s and a Studio CC in a quite reflective room, and it sounds VERY bright to me, even with a Marantz SR19EX receiver.
     
  7. John Dunlap

    John Dunlap Stunt Coordinator

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    My components are the following:

    Toshiba SD-1600 DVD Player (will be upgraded soon)
    Rotel RSP-985 Pre/Pro
    Marantz MM-9000 5x150 Amp
    AudioQuest DiamondBack Interconnects
    Monster XP (?) 12G Speaker Cable

    So what do you guys think is the weakest link??

    Oh and BTW- The way my speakers are set up is downright horrible. I have a corner setup (which I despise) with the 2 mains about a foot from the wall-not equidistant to the listening position. My Center is atop my entertainment center about 8' off the floor (I know, I know). I am in the process of finishing my basement as a dedicated HT so this will all be resolved in the near future.
     
  8. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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    1st, the Paradigm Studio series is not bright at all (look at the frequency response curves). Room acoustics affects the sound as much (if not more) than the speakers. Your mains are very close to the wall which results in strong reflections. If your room is mostly empty, has a lot of glass (pictures or doors), or has uncarpeted floors then you are likely to get a very bright presentation. Fix the room before replacing equipment (sounds like you're doing that with your dedicated HT). Finally, you will hear some sibilance because it is in the recording.
     
  9. Salvador

    Salvador Second Unit

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  10. Mark Austin

    Mark Austin Supporting Actor

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  11. Bruce Chang

    Bruce Chang Second Unit

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    Just get a tube amp. Worked for me.
     
  12. HarryR

    HarryR Agent

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    Ive got 60's using a Marantz 7200 receiver.

    I originally had 12 guage Monster zipcord and they honestly seemed to sound very flat and I was considering switching speakers. I then hooked up Monster M1.4 biwire and these sounded awful at first particularly with Alison Krauss when she would hit highs the speakers sounded awful. However, after about 2 weeks of playing on and off they sound better than they ever have and really seemed to have settled down. I dont know if it is a combination of speaker break-in or the new cables or what. Don't give up on them....now that I have had them for awhile I have not found a track with highs that the Paradigm's cant reproduce well.

    Good Luck
     
  13. Pete H

    Pete H Stunt Coordinator

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    Unless you have a pair that are simply defective I would doubt seriously that the 60's are the source of your problem. First, I would give them a little more time to break in. Second, I would look at whether or not your systems electrical requirements are being properly met. Third, I would try a friends amp. Lastly, I would borrow a CD player. Are the AudioQuest Diamondbacks a shielded I/C?
     
  14. John Dunlap

    John Dunlap Stunt Coordinator

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    Don't worry- I'm not even close to giving up on them. In fact I love the Studio 60's. Part of this is me being overly analytical which is something I do every time I purchase a new piece of gear.

    Just for the heck of it I moved the speakers out about 2 feet from each wall and got slightly better overall presentation. I'm also looking forward to moving everything downstairs and then tweaking the hell out of that room to improve acoustics. Also looking forward to upgrading the CD/DVD player and possibly interconnects.

    BTW- I stopped by my local authorized B&W dealer on the way home. I took a listen to the DM604 S3's - what I consider to be the S60's closest competitor. The 604's are certainly an awesome speaker but in no way did I think that they sounded appreciably better than the 60's, especially at an additional $200 list. For now I'm quite happy with what I have.
     
  15. John_W_Jr

    John_W_Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi John,

    Just my $.02--Years ago I was trying different interconnects in my system (Denon 1520 cd, aragon 24k pre, aragon 4004mk2 amp, and Vandersteen 3 speakers) and one of the brands was Straightwire cd cable. That particular interconnect alone brought out sibilance in my system when there was none before. I then tried Staightwire Maestro and the sound just came alive--so BIG differences even with cables of the same brand.
    In my HT system I use the Paradigm Studio 40's for LF and RF and I just picked up a pair of Studio 20's for surrounds. I'd been using my 2 channel Aragon 4004 for awhile with the '40's and never heard any sibilance. Yesterday I purchased a Rotel 1075 5-channel amp, and still no sibilance. I have read in Stereophile that Rotel amplifiers are a very good match for Paradigm speakers.
    Now, even though I haven't heard any sibilance I wouldn't say that I'm hearing music close to "reference" quality because I'm using a Panasonic RP-56 dvd player; a $179.00 player that is no doubt using some pretty inexpensive op-amps for it's analog-out section.
    My HT set-up (currently):

    Panasonic RP-56 (to be replaced by ?)
    Audible Ilusions MOD-3 pre-amp (to be replaced by Rotel 1066)
    Rotel 1075 5-channel amp
    Paradigm Studio 40v2 mains
    Paradigm Studio CC
    Paradigm Studio 20v2 surrounds
    Hsu VTF-2 sub
    Straightwire Maestro interconnects
    Monster 850i interconnects
    Monster M1.4s biwire speaker cables (mains & CC)
    Monster xp 14awg (surround)

    I would say continue with your break in period and try lots of different source material (cds and dvds)--if that doesn't tame it, try some other interconnects (borrow). From there, you might want to try to borrow some other components--either dvd player, or amplifier.
     
  16. Chas_T

    Chas_T Supporting Actor

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    I own 20's, 40's and 100's. I've connected them to a Parasound 855A, Sherbourn 5/1500A and a Sony STR-DA777ES in different configurations in different room settings. My players have both been Sony's. DVP-C650D and a SCD-CE775.

    It seems that the sound you describe occurs on the same discs in all enviornments. Each enviornment is different in nature.

    I'm using 12 guage Monster zipcord and also some AR 16 guage. The problem although infrequent, seems to be source material. Everything else sounds fine. That is my experience.
     
  17. Adil M

    Adil M Supporting Actor

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    Has anyone rec'd just taking the same problem source and testing it on other systems?
    I'm not surprised w/ the sibilance remark. When I was on the tirgger to get a set of Paradigm speakers I had picked the Active 40's due to it's more realistic sounding highs. The cymbals in Crash by DMB always had a sibilance or trailing edge to them. Still in limbo w/ lots of cash burning a hole in my pocket.
     
  18. John Dunlap

    John Dunlap Stunt Coordinator

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    Does anyone have any experience with a product called the AH! Noisekiller?? I did a search on sibilance and found a thread where one member recommended it (see link). Sounds like the exact solution I'm looking for.
    http://www.upscaleaudio.com/
     

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