Steve Sansweet talks BD 6 film Star Wars and more (1 Viewer)

[Mark Hawley]

Originally Posted by TravisR

I understand being dissapointed that the originals haven't been made available in a quality form but I don't know how anyone can say that they've milked Star Wars on DVD. They've had two distinct releases of the OT in 12 years and one for the prequels. There's movies that have had two DVDs in less than a year of its theatrical release.

I'd even go further and say I don't understand why people feel Lucas "milked" Star Wars on VHS. Before the 1995 remasters, and with the exception of widescreen versions released around '91 or '92, all the releases of each Star Wars films were from the same transfer. They might have been re-released in 1990 in a box set with new artwork, but I believe they were the same transfers done for the initial release of each respective film. With the exception of the widescreen version, the only instance where you would have "needed" to buy a new copy was the remastered versions released in 1995 but I'd hardly consider re-releasing a film, updating a ten-plus year old transfer, "milking" it.

The 1997 Special Editions I could somewhat agree with as milking it, but if a fan genuinely disliked the fact that Lucas tinkered with them, I'd see no reason to buy them, or their 2000 re-release, same transfer, but with different artwork and a 10 minute behind-the-scenes of Episode II featurette. I'm sure some of the hardcore fans bought them just for the artwork and the featurette but it certainly wasn't milking it where more discriminating fans were concerned.

In the end, with the exception of the SEs, I wouldn't say these films were shamelessly re-released anymore than than the average popular movie.

I'm firmly in the camp though that Lucas should've released both versions on DVD back in 2004, or at the very least, held off on re-releasing them in 2006 with the laserdisc transfers in favor of a full blown 30th Anniversary release the next year complete with a state of the art transfer for the original versions. I also think that some of the audio and tranfer issue are inexcusable and idicative of a rush job. It seems like Lucas was genuinely holding to his plan of not releasing them until after the prequels were finished, then almost last minute, decided to move them up to 2004 to help them promote the upcoming Episode III. Odd though since they did seem to put a lot of work in some areas: Jabba's completely revised in Star Wars, McDiarmid appears in Empire, and there's other numerous little changes here and there, but they couldn't find the time to make the lightsabres look right, especially with Luke's training scene on the Falcon or the climatic fight of ROTJ?! So if anything, these films are due for a re-release, though it better be blu ray.

 

[Oliver_A]

It's not about the number of releases the original trilogy had. It's about building up a huge amount of anticipation over the years and then disappointing the fans with a lacklustre, bug-ridden DVD release. As if no one at Lucasfilm really cares about those films, or understands their appeal.

They are probably the most popular films recieving no kind of love from their own creator. Sure, this whole franchise is what keeps the cash flow going, but deep down inside, George Lucas probably resents the fact that Star Wars was the film which made him one of the most weahlthy and influential persons in film history. Just look at the DVD treatment of THX 1138, which is a much more interesting release than the Star Wars trilogy.

It's this ambivalence between Star Wars (plus the fans) and its creator which is probably the reason why everything from 1997 on feels so coldly calculated and yet, totally out of sync with the spirit of those original films.

I mean, just look a the original Star Wars. For me, it's a pure guilty pleasure, a very funny and energetic movie which clearly transports a lot of 70's feeling. Its hand made special effects, ridiculously funny costumes, theatrical yet fun acting and production mistakes are what makes it a highly entertaining, kind of naive, sympathetic and organic film for me. If you "fix" this film, you fix everything which, I think, made it the huge box-office success it was back in 1977.

I get the exact same kind of vibe when watching this behind the scenes footage of ILM from 1976, while they were doing the special effects. This is the kind of stuff which SHOULD HAVE BEEN on a special edition of Star Wars.



This whole atmosphere, both in this documentary, and in the final film, is a HUGE conrast to how those films are being treated commercially. It has become a cold franchise, devoid of any fun, yet built on one single, very funny film. No one responsible at Lucasfilm seems to understand (or doesn't want to understand) this fact.
Edited by Oliver_A - 8/2/2009 at 06:37 pm GMT
Edited by Oliver_A - 8/2/2009 at 06:40 pm GMT

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Oliver_A

It's not about the number of releases the original trilogy had. It's about building up a huge amount of anticipation over the years and then disappointing the fans with a lacklustre, bug-ridden DVD release. As if no one at Lucasfilm really cares about those films, or understands their appeal.

They are probably the most popular films recieving no kind of love from their own creator. Sure, this whole franchise is what keeps the cash flow going, but deep down inside, George Lucas probably resents the fact that Star Wars was the film which made him one of the most weahlthy and influential persons in film history. Just look at the DVD treatment of THX 1138, which is a much more interesting release than the Star Wars trilogy.

I know George Lucas is somehow seen as the antichrist by some people but that's ridiculous. If George Lucas had no love for Star Wars, he wouldn't have spent most of the last 15 years (that's about a quarter of his entire life) on Star Wars with the prequels, cartoon series and, at some point in the future, a live action TV series. And if he was only in it for money, he could have someone else handle everything so he didn't have to bother with something he had no love for and just sat back and counted the money as it poured in.

 

[Oliver_A]

Originally Posted by TravisR


I know George Lucas is somehow seen as the antichrist by some people but that's ridiculous. If George Lucas had no love for Star Wars, he wouldn't have spent most of the last 15 years (that's about a quarter of his entire life) on Star Wars with the prequels, cartoon series and, at some point in the future, a live action TV series. And if he was only in it for money, he could have someone else handle everything so he didn't have to bother with something he had no love for and just sat back and counted the money as it poured in.

What you describe is not love, but how a business is run. The prequel trilogy are probably the most expensive independent films ever made. You can only finance this if you exploit the popularity of this franchise to its fullest extend. You sell a product and hope to make a profit, in order to keep your company over water.

LOVE begins when we are talking about a filmmaker spending quite some money on restoring his unbeloved (from the public), obscure $700.000 science fiction film from 1970 by Lowry Digital and giving it its own 2 disc special edition DVD, with some very interesting and personal documentaries on it.

LOVE and fun is when I am seeing the people working at ILM on Star Wars in 1976, people whose attitude and spirit clearly had a huge impact on the final film.



However, when I am watching the Laserdisc transfers of my 2006 DVDs, I sense no love for the original films, but a business decision.

"How can we dry up the black market for those fan made DVD's, which have gotten quite popular? And while we are at it, we can clear the rest of our stock from the previous DVD. Yes, they have lots of bugs which could be corrected, but people will still buy them anyway, right?"

Watch THX 1138 and sense the irony about the man who made this film.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Personally I was quite happy with the DVD 2004 dvd release of the original trillogy films. I thought they extras and the documentary in particular were quite good.

Frankly you are NEVER going to get the original cuts of the films on anything more than the old laserdisc transfer because Lucas cringes when he sees them. If Lucas liked those versions of the films he would release them, but he clearly doesn't. You may not like it....but dang get over it already.

Doug

 

[Oliver_A]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

If Lucas liked those versions of the films he would release them, but he clearly doesn't. You may not like it....but dang get over it already.

Obviously, you have been living under a rock since 2004. And dang, I will pretty much say anything I want about this issue. If you don't care about the originals, then I am obviously the wrong conversation partner for you.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Oliver_A




Obviously, you have been living under a rock since 2004. And dang, I will pretty much say anything I want about this issue. If you don't care about the originals, then I am obviously the wrong conversation partner for you.

I saw the originals in 1977 when I was 11, and they are the reason that I'm a film maker. So they are actually hugely important to me.

I haven't been under a rock, I know the alleged issues with the DVD set. They just are a big enough deal to bother me, and are for the most part nit picking. Yes I have my own issues with the special editions, but I feel that on balance they are a huge improvement over the original cuts of the films and am willing to over look the things I don't like.

Doug

 

[Oliver_A]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce





I saw the originals in 1977 when I was 11, and they are the reason that I'm a film maker. So they are actually hugely important to me.

I haven't been under a rock, I know the alleged issues with the DVD set. They just are a big enough deal to bother me, and are for the most part nit picking. Yes I have my own issues with the special editions, but I feel that on balance they are a huge improvement over the original cuts of the films and am willing to over look the things I don't like.

Doug

Your opinion is appreciated, but totaly irrelevant for me, since it will never ever convince me to like the Special Editions. For me, films are always products of their time. I love the original, Academy Award winning special effects. The fact that he changed the trilogy AGAIN for 2004 (although he claimed back in 1997 that these are now the versions he likes) tells me that it's absolutely not about artistic integrity, but merely upgrading an old product which has to be sold in combination with its new, accompanying products. If GL would have made Star Wars in 1997, it would have been a totally different film. Different actors, different technology, different social and cultural influences. That's the ridiculousness about upgrading old films.

But hey, this is all old talk. As always, there are fans telling me how I am supposed to love the new versions. As if my love for the original versions somehow questions or subverts their own, personal decisions. Frankly, I don't give a hoot what version you prefer or that you are telling me to stop caring about my own, personal tastes.


Edited by Oliver_A - 8/2/2009 at 08:22 pm GMT

 

[Ensign Eddie]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Personally I was quite happy with the DVD 2004 dvd release of the original trillogy films. I thought they extras and the documentary in particular were quite good.

Frankly you are NEVER going to get the original cuts of the films on anything more than the old laserdisc transfer because Lucas cringes when he sees them. If Lucas liked those versions of the films he would release them, but he clearly doesn't. You may not like it....but dang get over it already.

Doug

I just wish that Lucas could see what a lot of us see in those original versions.

My ultimate version of the films would include a totally restored OT (with all the myriad audio versions), both versions of the SEs (1997 and 2004) and the super-duper SEs you know that he has to be working on.

My gut feeling is that, by the time he began working on the Prequels, Lucas gathered so many "yes-men" around him that no one would tell him "no" once in a while. Can you imagine what kind of a film "Revenge of the Sith" could have been if Lucas had allowed someone like Ron Howard or even Spielberg take the reins?

 

[Douglas Monce]

Did I say you should like the Special Editions? Not at all. I totally understand if you prefer the original cuts of the films. But I'm getting a little tired of hearing about the "evil motives" of George Lucas. He only wants to pick my pocket. He stole my childhood.

So what if he wants to make more money on the movies. He isn't in business for his health. This is after all show BUSINESS. People aren't in it for heart; they are in it to make money. If they weren't, movies wouldn't cost $100 million or more.

Honestly I don't think the motivation is money so much as a new technology or technique comes along and he feels that he can improve on something. It’s his film whats wrong with that?

Personally if it were up to me I would have all the different cuts of the film on a new set. Including all the different audio mixes of the first film, but its not up to me.

Doug

 

[Alex cosmo]

Any other series we can have a conversation about what we'd like to see in a home video release without getting lectured by true believers. You like it, good for you. Some of us sinners haven't seen the light and just want some old movies to come out in a nice presentation. Pretend we're talking about about wanting a good transfer for The Black Hole and spare the lecture.

 

[Oliver_A]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Did I say you should like the Special Editions? Not at all. I totally understand if you prefer the original cuts of the films. But I'm getting a little tired of hearing about the "evil motives" of George Lucas. He only wants to pick my pocket. He stole my childhood.

Then you obviously haven't read my posts very well, since I am talking nowhere about "evil motives" or "he raped my childhood". I am just talking about much hyped products which did not fulfil what a lot of fans were hoping for.

So what if he wants to make more money on the movies. He isn't in business for his health. This is after all show BUSINESS. People aren't in it for heart; they are in it to make money. If they weren't, movies wouldn't cost $100 million or more.

Yes, and I am in for the entertainment, and I am NOT BEING entertained when I see 1997/2004 CGI in a 1977 film. It's only a BUSINESS as long as there are people BUYING your product. You did buy it, I did not. What I am giving here is merely a business recommendation for future releases to further increase the potential market penetration. Sometimes, it helps to listen to your customers.

Honestly I don't think the motivation is money so much as a new technology or technique comes along and he feels that he can improve on something. It’s his film whats wrong with that?

Oh absolutely nothing. If he feels he can improve on something, well, let him do it. The cutting edge of DVD/Blu Ray technology right now is releasing every single version of a particular film in good looking transfers. So with this upcoming Blu Ray, Lucasfilm has all the possibility to regain their reputation for being the industry leaders in home video technology. I'm a whore for quality and more than willing to pay the price for it (waves with his Euro bills).

Personally if it were up to me I would have all the different cuts of the film on a new set. Including all the different audio mixes of the first film, but its not up to me.

Doug

Well, then what's the problem, when we are basically on the same side? Live and let live I say. We both just want the best product for our money.

It's nevertheless interesting to see what treatment THX 1138 recieved, compared to Star Wars. OBVIOUSLY, it's not all about business.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Oliver_A


Yes, and I am in for the entertainment, and I am NOT BEING entertained when I see 1997/2004 CGI in a 1977 film. It's only a BUSINESS as long as there are people BUYING your product. You did buy it, I did not. What I am giving here is merely a business recommendation for future releases to further increase the potential market penetration. Sometimes, it helps to listen to your customers.

Well, then what's the problem, when we are basically on the same side? Live and let live I say. We both just want the best product for our money (or are you a Lucasfilm employee?).

Well considering that the DVD boxed set of the original trilogy is among the best selling DVD sets of all time, I think Lucas probably knows what he is doing with regard to business.

We are on the same side with one exception. I am of the opinion that they are Lucas' films and he shouldn't be subject to the whims and wants of the fans. He made the first film the way he wanted (with in the limits of technology and money) bucking the opinions of just about everyone else involved including the studio that put up the money. Why should he start listening to the opinions of others now.

No I'm not a Lucas film employee. I'm an independent filmmaker

Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

It's nevertheless interesting to see what treatment THX 1138 recieved, compared to Star Wars. OBVIOUSLY, it's not all about business.

Considering that there are numerous CGI changes to THX, I'm not sure what you’re talking about?

 

[Heinz W]

The really sad part of all this is that it could be done right. Look at another 1977 film that's already out on BD, Close Encounters. That set has everything; all three cuts of the movie, a nice film-like transfer, and decent extras. There's no reason the same couldn't be done for Star Wars.

 

[Oliver_A]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Well considering that the DVD boxed set of the original trilogy is among the best selling DVD sets of all time, I think Lucas probably knows what he is doing with regard to business.

Are you sure you are not a Lucasfilm employee? Because you talk like one, proudly defending a product which has been much criticized among fans, and which surely hurted their reputation as an innovative leader in home video technology.

We are on the same side with one exception. I am of the opinion that they are Lucas' films and he shouldn't be subject to the whims and wants of the fans. He made the first film the way he wanted (with in the limits of technology and money) bucking the opinions of just about everyone else involved including the studio that put up the money. Why should he start listening to the opinions of others now.

Again: you have obviously been living under a rock, since he DID release the original versions in 2006.

How does this, combined with the fact that he reworked the, as he said at the time, perfect 1997 versions again in 2004, comply with your theory that he always made the films the way he wanted, and that he absolutely does not need to listen to his fans, since he is an artist?

Again: so much for artistic integrity, and not needing the fans.

Lucasfilm is a business. Star Wars is a business. I am a willing customer whore to buy a definitive Blu Ray set. You are... an independent filmmaker defending a multimillion dollar business.

 

[Oliver_A]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce



Considering that there are numerous CGI changes to THX, I'm not sure what you’re talking about?

Those CGI changes and the Lowry restoration process were quite expensive. Not really a clever business decision for an obscure $700.000 dollar film which flopped in 1970. I sense a lot of love involved in this project.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Oliver_A




Are you sure you are not a Lucasfilm employee? Because you talk like one, proudly defending a product which has been much criticized among fans, and which surely hurted their reputation as an innovative leader in home video technology.


Again: you have obviously been living under a rock, since he DID release the original versions in 2006.

How does this, combined with the fact that he reworked the, as he said at the time, perfect 1997 versions again in 2004, comply with your theory that he always made the films the way he wanted, and that he absolutely does not need to listen to his fans, since he is an artist?

Again: so much for artistic integrity, and not needing the fans.

Lucasfilm is a business. Star Wars is a business. I am a willing customer to buy a definitive Blu Ray set. You are... an independent filmmaker defending a multimillion dollar business.

Much criticized among fans, I think you mean among fanboys. There is a difference. Yes but he released a 10 year old analog transfer of the films. He obviously felt that there wasn’t a large enough market to justify spending several millions of dollars restoring the original versions of the films ( or at least the first film). Who said anything about art. I didn’t. I’m an independent film maker. Why shouldn’t I defend another filmmakers right to make money with his work.

Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Oliver_A




Those CGI changes and the Lowry restoration process were quite expensive. Not really a clever business decision for an obscure $700.000 dollar film which flopped in 1970. I sense a lot of love involved in this project.

Of course. THX was a very personal project for Lucas. Star Wars wasn’t. I don’t see any contradiction at all.

Doug

 

[Oliver_A]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Much criticized among fans, I think you mean among fanboys. There is a difference.

Yeah, but you got it completely backwards. Fanboys are those speaking on behalf of George Lucas (a person they do not know personally) and attacking other fans who, as customers, have valid criticisms against a much hyped and anticipated product.

Yes but he released a 10 year old analog transfer of the films. He obviously felt that there wasn’t a large enough market to justify spending several millions of dollars restoring the original versions of the films ( or at least the first film).

Nah, a new transfer from an old print would have been completely sufficient. I'm sure they could have matched the quality of other anamorphic transfers of highly important works of science fiction from that period. For example the 1980 Flash Gordon.

Who said anything about art. I didn’t. I’m an independent film maker. Why shouldn’t I defend another filmmakers right to make money with his work.

If it's not about art, then why are you repeating this Lucasfilm PR BS ("Oh, I am an artist, this 1997 er... 2004 versions were those movies I always envisioned, but were not able to do back in 1977!")

Obviously, giving his films to the public for free was not the topic of this discussion. I'm all for making money with Star Wars. I'm giving tips here how they can make even MORE money.


Edited by Oliver_A - 8/2/2009 at 09:49 pm GMT