Steroids in Baseball (Baseball Thread Annex)

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Doug Miller, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. Doug Miller

    Doug Miller Supporting Actor

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    For those who've been following the increasing press on steroids in baseball, I was wondering if anyone has come up with or found a site with before/after pictures of suspected users.

    I was on www.bostondirtdogs.com and about halfway down the page they had a "Juice Guy" series of pictures of Jason Giambi.

    This is going to be a very interesting year for baseball. The amount of press baseball received for ARod was a [​IMG] (even though I hope ARod sucks it in NY,) but the steroid scandal is almost a polar opposite [​IMG] .

    Dusty Baker had a very legitimate point when he compared the steroid scandal to McCarthyism -- a solid comparison in my opinion. Gee, I guess I'm contributing to it with a thread like this, but I still find it to be interesting conversation.

    Doug
     
  2. Joe Wilmore

    Joe Wilmore Stunt Coordinator

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    It is very obvious to anyone who trains with weights, that Sosa, Bonds and Giambi all took steroids.
     
  3. James T

    James T Screenwriter

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    What did Jose Canseco say about steroids? He gave some crazy number that no one believed, but with all these steroid cases, he might not be that far off.
     
  4. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    What is funny is that if you look at Giambi right now, he claims he has only lost 4lbs and "reshaped" his body. "reshaped" my behind; unless he's reshaped about 20-30lbs of it to be "invisible"
     
  5. Doug Miller

    Doug Miller Supporting Actor

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    Joe --

    I would agree with your assessment... kind of. Yeah, I know that doesn't make much sense. I think they took steroids too, but there was a former NFL player and now certified steroid expert that was on Mike Lamb's show on Fox Sports Radio yesterday that stated it was unlikely that Barry had gotten that big from strictly lifting weights. He did however clarify, that given the right diet, the right amount of sleep, and right amount of training all combined, Barry could have bulked up to that size legitimately. (Sorry, I don't remember the players name.) That said, the guest did say he thought Bonds used steroids.

    Doug
     
  6. Jason Seaver

    Jason Seaver Lead Actor

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    Dusty Baker says a lot of stupid things, but he's right in this instance. I don't doubt that there is steroid abuse going on in baseball, and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if some major stars are involved. However, I also can't help but feel that throwing accusations around without rock-solid evidence is a really scummy thing to do.
     
  7. Joe Wilmore

    Joe Wilmore Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris,

    I would disagree about some things with Giambi. You can look a lot thinner, without losing a significant amount of weight. Although I don't believe Giambi, I have seen people lose 20 - 50 percent of their body fat, without dropping a lot of pounds. The telltale sign of steroids is the puffiness of the face, and the bloating of the muscles. Also, some of the injuries you see, are due to the fact that the joints, ligaments and bones can't handle a huge gain in muscle within a short period of time.
     
  8. Casey Trowbridg

    Casey Trowbridg Lead Actor

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    Agreed, but that kind of thing happens all the time in all aspects of life, not just baseball or even pro sports in general. I think that this will dominate the season headlines which could be a real shame if it overshadows a lot of good action and compelling stories on the field.
     
  9. Phil L

    Phil L Supporting Actor

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    I'm inclined to believe that most of the players are being falsely accused (and I agree with Jason, it seems like a scummy thing to do).

    1. Those who tested positive made up 5-7% of the players. What is totally ignored is that 93%-95% tested negative.

    I'm a big guy and I'm often asked if I take steriods. I don't. I take some legal supplements (not including andro, though andro doesn't do anything anyways) and I eat a lot.

    When I first walked into a gym in June 2000- I was 168 lbs @ 13% bodyfat. Now I'm 226 lbs @ 10% bodyfat.

    I made the gains quickly, naturally, with only some advice from friends who are bodybuilders.

    For these players, it's their job. They probably work twice as hard as I do in the gym, they've got trainers (who might or might not know what they're doing), nutritionists, and so on. There is no reason for me to believe that these guys couldn't bulk up naturally, it isn't that hard.

    I also think that since the accusations tend to be made by sports fans, who generally aren't the fittest people in the world, that you have to factor in envy and jealousy before you believe what you read.

    Oh yeah, people say my head looks bigger too.
     
  10. Doug Miller

    Doug Miller Supporting Actor

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    Phil --

    The one thing you're neglecting on your 5-7% steroid figure is that all MLB players were given notice that the tests were to occur. So even given prior notice, you're still looking at 5-7% of players that are stupid enough to continue using... or maybe that's smart enough because they know baseball isn't going to do anything about it. What you're also neglecting is that the steroid testing did not test for THG which is the common steroid with masking agent that is being used by todays athlete. As much as I love baseball, I think it's a fair assumption to say that 15-20% of players are using steroids of some form. (Not mentioning the "designer steroids" that I've heard about recently that also don't test positive.)

    Doug
     
  11. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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    As Doug mentioned, only 5-7% were stupid enough to get caught. It is a certainty that the true number of users is/was higher. And lest anyone think that 5-7% isn't that bad, that's the equivalent of an entire MLB team.

    I think one of the persons whom you would least expect to test positive is going to be questioned: Eric Gagne. Until now, you haven't really heard of any pitchers being involved.

    The names will come out eventually, and baseball will have to put an asterisk next to most batting records set from 1990-2002.
     
  12. Phil L

    Phil L Supporting Actor

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    THG isn't a common steroid. It was a designer steroid made by BALCO.

    Sure 5-7 isn't an accurate representation. There are probably some false positives in there. It also can't account for Growth Hormone, which can't be tested for.

    I wouldn't be surprised if a good number of the players on steroids are borderline players, barely holding on to their roster spots, trying to get an edge.
     
  13. Jeremiah

    Jeremiah Screenwriter

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    Phil, you made gains quickly because you were new to weightlifting(along with hard work and good genetics), Pro athletes have their bodies so tuned that they are pretty much at their peak level by the time they are in their mid 20's let alone their mid-late 30's.

    Jason Giambi used Steroids, I know someone who did them with him just a few years back.

    Pretty much every player being accused of using Steroids are players that have used Steroids, there might not be hardcore evidence but these guys were/are on the Juice. We don't here talk of Jeter or A-Rod on Steroids because they aren't.

    I do agree that there are probably A LOT of borderline players using, heck if there were several players using steroids at my High School there are going to be even more % of players using them on the Pro level.
     
  14. Casey Trowbridg

    Casey Trowbridg Lead Actor

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    Probably this is the case, but as baseball management has stated they fear that this mentality goes down in to the minor leagues as well. They fear that minor leaguers will start taking steroids to gain an edge on those borderline players that are also doing steroids to keep their jobs, only the minor leaguers will do it to try and steal their jobs.

    I also believe that a number of bigger stars are probably also doing it because of the pressure to entertain, and to hit the tape measure home runs, or a few could even be using not because they feel pressured to entertain but because they see names bigger than themselves using.

    No matter the reasons for the use, the reasons aren't the problem, its the use of steroids that is the problem both for the user and for the image of the game, and that's not just true of baseball but of all athletic competition.
     

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