stereo listening of DVDA

Discussion in 'Music' started by DaveDickey, Jun 11, 2004.

  1. DaveDickey

    DaveDickey Stunt Coordinator

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    I've been so very enamoured with hi rez surround, both SACD and DVDA, that I forgot to check into 192Khz stereo DVDA - Margaret hold the phone - IT DON'T GET NO BETTER THAN THIS!!! My only question is: Should I buy two of every 192 stereo release and save one shrink-wrapped copy for the coming dark days of MP3emia? You've heard of it, right?
    Dave
     
  2. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    ...oh, the "very dark ages". I've thought of thst too. I've already stashed away a few discs myself.[​IMG]
     
  3. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    192khz is very good but I can count on one hand the number of titles.

    192khz gets close to what Super Audio sounds like IMHO. It is a big improvement over 96khz.
     
  4. Steve_AS

    Steve_AS Second Unit

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    According to DAC designer Dan Lavry, 192kHz is overkill. His reasoning is sound, his credentials impeccable, and in the absence of any properly documented evidence to the contrary (sighted comparison, by me or anyone else, is *not* sufficient), I believe him.


    http://forums.lukpac.org/viewtopic.p...ighlight=#5722
     
  5. Michael St. Clair

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    Oh, what does he know. I bet he doesn't perform sighted tests, own a green marker, shatki stone or tice clock, or put his CDs in the freezer.
     
  6. Richard Burzynski

    Richard Burzynski Second Unit

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    I am new to DVDA and have four discs, all of the 96/24 5.1 variety. Does 192/48 5.1 exist on DVDA? Or only in stereo, and what are the titles? I did some google searching but finding lists that specified resolution weren't easy to come by.

    Thanks.

    Rich B.
     
  7. Jean D

    Jean D Screenwriter

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    I am also curious of this.
     
  8. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    I think DVD-A is limited to 24/96 5.1 and 24/192 2 CH.

    Not sure what 192/48 5.1 is....can you please clarify?

    BGL
     
  9. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Brian,

    192K sampling rate, 48 bit sampling depth is my guess. I'm pretty sure that 192/24 5.1 was intended.

    Regardless, it won't happen on this generation of audio disc. It would require Blu-ray or HD-DVD to make this a reality.

    Cheers,
     
  10. Richard Burzynski

    Richard Burzynski Second Unit

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    Yes, 192/24 was intended in my question - sorry for the typo. So it won't exist for 5.1, that's a shame. Is there a decent sampling of 2 channel 192/24 titles available?

    Thanks.

    Rich B.
     
  11. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    I have read Dan's papers but he makes more of an academic argument than an implementation one.

    If you talk to Dr. Mark Waldrep at AIX he feels strongly that the extra sampling rate sounds better and I agree. The sampling rate is very important in getting the transients right. This is the acoustic jazz music that Chesky does sounds so much better in 96k and why 192k sounds even better.

    As far as capacity goes, DVDA can only do 192k on 2 channels, not 5.1. There is not enough space for full 5.1 channels at this resolution. I think the same applies to 176k.
     
  12. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Lee,

    It does apply when you get over 96K. Insufficient compression to fit into the DVD requirements. Never mind that it's beyond the specs for the disc. You're still pushing 25Mbits/second uncompressed which is too much for any of the existing lossless codecs to shrink down into DVD-ROM 1x speeds. Of all things, the lossless option for Windows Media Audio would come the closest to making this work.

    The same would be true of 128fs DSD, it won't fit in DVD space either for surround.

    Cheers,
     
  13. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Yes, that's why I correctly stated it. [​IMG]

    The great advantage of SACD for surround is that the format holds pure DSD 2.8mhz quality across all the channels.

    Unfortunately the DVD spec is very dated by now and data storage tech has advanced sharply...that's another reason why the extra capacity of BluRay is appealing to me.
     
  14. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Lee,

    Earlier you said:


    Maybe that you own, but there are quite a few more than that on the market....

    I need more than 2 hands to count the number of 24/192K titles, I'll stop at 11, once the point is proven.

    America Homecoming
    Linda Ronstadt What's New
    The Eagles Hotel California
    The Doobie Brothers The Captain and Me
    Carly Simon No Secrets

    All of these are WB titles, that's one hands worth.

    The 2nd hands worth, all on Hi-Res Music:
    Ray Brown Trio Soular Energy
    Pass, Ellis, Brown, Hanna Seven Come Eleven
    Alexander, Brown and Ellis Trio
    LA4 Just Friends
    Ellis, Green Rhythm Willie

    A few to spare, from Classic Records:
    Alan Parsons Project The Turn of a Friendly Card
    Alan Parsons Project I, Robot

    These were off the top of my head.

    Cheers,
     
  15. Phil A

    Phil A Producer
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    John so you don't have to take off your shoes and socks, (nothing personal), there are more, I think the Best of R.E.M., Frank Sinatra Live at the Sands and of course several of the Neil Young ones are 176k and also Jonatha Brooke's Steady Pull and Surround by Entertainment titles Like Guarini String Quartet
     
  16. Michael St. Clair

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    Steely Dan's "Everything Must Go" is 24/192.

    I'm sure since we can probably come up with 20 or more off the tops of our heads, there are probably a lot more out there than that. Shame on Lee for the hyperbole.
     
  17. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Michael,

    My point exactly. No need to resort to hyperbole here.

    All he had to say is that there are far too few 24/192K discs for his personal liking and life would be peachy keen [​IMG]

    Cheers,
     
  18. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    It's funny you guys respond this late to a comment I made in post #3. [​IMG]

    Are you bored?

    Is it easier than discussing the fact that the 24/192 is only available on 2 channels? This was what was being discussed you know.

    Okay, so maybe there are a few more recordings than what I can count on one hand. That's still a limited number of the 700+ DVDAs.
     
  19. Michael St. Clair

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    Lee,

    I missed your silly claim the first time around, or I certainly would have responded. I must have been 'tuning you out' at the time.
     
  20. Phil A

    Phil A Producer
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    Lee, no one is bored or picking on you, but facts are facts. When you make a shoot from the hip statement that is not factual all that is being done is give the facts. All hi-rez, SACD, DVD-A, are not all that forthcoming on the recording chain and original masters (e.g. analog, digital). If one wants to talk apples to apples then perhaps a better way is pure DSD recordings vs. those original recorded in hi-rez PCM and released that way and clearly SACD has many more. I would not, however, equate format or sampling frequency to recording quality. The Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms" XRCD2, expecially given its age is as sonically good as many hi-rez releases. The format wars get a bit boring. No one can control who releases something on a particular format other than the record labels. Hardware is available to the comsumer to play both or whatever their preference is. Both hi-rez formats have quality titles and recordings available.
     

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