Starting a UHD only boutique label - a fool's errand? (1 Viewer)

[Capt D McMars]

Does it have to be uhd only? There are tons of great niche titles that have only had a dvd release. In many cases I wonder if uhd is realistic, or even beneficial in some cases.

Agreed, there's a much wider market for Blu ray restoration editions and lower price points to cost. The most glaring hurdles are going to be Licencing and Disc Mastering and Printing. Acquisition of the best elements and then the restoration work is a great start.
Right now the biggest issue is the backlog of disc printing. Apparently there's only one disc printing facility in the US, and they are backed so far that even mainstream studios like Warner Bros are pushing their drop dates on their titles forward to compensate for the lag time. Which I find very interesting, at a a time when so many are saying that there is a declining interest or demand for physical medium. All of that I take with a grain of salt.
There are so many titles, in the Classic Campy feature film genre, that would keep you busy for quite some time. Film Masters sees the potential and is going great guns!! I'd love to see another contender enter the fray...If you et a chance, talk with Phil Hopkins of Film Masters. He's a nice guy and is of a similar mindset. I'm sure he would be will to help.

 

[Polyscope]

Thank you, I've PM:ed Bruce.

There was a period between maybe 2005 unto just a few years ago, maybe 2020, where almost all originated in 2K only. Those films can only be upprezzed at best, but will add no new info. But if it was originated on film (that can theoretically resolve in the region of 6-8K), then 4K makes sense. The movies I'm most interested in probably originated on film and are older.

I think the combo BD and UHD might be an option - I've seen that done quite often.

 

[jayembee]

Not necessarily true. Most deluxe LD's were also issued as standard editions.

It's true that with Criterion, their deluxe CAV editions, which were typically $100-$125 (the only $150 title that comes to mind is Brazil, and that was because that one had a lot of content, including two separate versions of the film) would have lower priced (typically $50-60) CLV editions. But those weren't that common. Most Criterion titles were only available in CLV.

In most cases, if there was more than one option for any given title it was a widescreen edition vs fullscreen edition, or an (earlier) analog sound edition vs a (later) digital sound edition. And those tended to be the same (or close enough to the same) price.

 

[jcroy]

Right now the biggest issue is the backlog of disc printing. Apparently there's only one disc printing facility in the US, and they are backed so far that even mainstream studios like Warner Bros are pushing their drop dates on their titles forward to compensate for the lag time. Which I find very interesting, at a a time when so many are saying that there is a declining interest or demand for physical medium. All of that I take with a grain of salt.

There's several smaller pressing plants in america, of wildly varying quality. (Some might not even manufacture bluray discs). Only one large volume giant plant left, in Guadalajara Mexico.

With that being said, the american divison of Viacom/Paramount has been manufacturing their region 1/A dvds and blurays at Bertelsmann's giant plant in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany for over the past two years. If you take a look at the packaging of recent Paramount titles, there may be a "made in germany" tag printed on the back.

 

[cineMANIAC]

I don't think starting a boutique label is a futile endeavor, but it has to be more of a "labor of love" thing you dabble with on the side rather than a day job or something you hope to get rich (or richer) with. It'll be a losing proposition if it's the latter.

I'm of the mindset that physical media would probably stick around a while longer, maybe even flourish again, if prices came down. REALLY down, like down to the $10-15 range for movie-only discs. The primary reason DVD was successful a bit later down the line was because you could literally buy them almost anywhere for cheap. I regularly stocked up on $7.99 discs at J&R Music World (in NYC) almost every weekly payday. There was always a sale going on somewhere. It truly was a movie lover's paradise. Fast forward to 2024 and labels are charging $60 for a single film because it's a steelbook with a slipcover. Inside you'll find a Blu-ray and a DVD, not a 4K.

Prices are undoubtedly going to rise and keep rising and some of us are 100% willing to support that if it means we'll get quality discs with worthwhile extras. A smart plan would be to have tiered pricing. Someone just wants the film and doesn't care about packaging or extras? Charge them $10 for a disc and generic case. If they want extras, it will cost an additional $5. Release a Deluxe edition with collectible packaging for $20-25 and, finally, a super Deluxe set with a fancy box, novels, posters and more for the Uber fan. The sky is the limit for that last tier - you can charge whatever you want and some fans will happily splurge. Best of all? You'll give people real options and build yourself a loyal fanbase. Forcing people to spend $60 for a movie by limiting the release and only offering a swag edition leaves a sour taste in their mouths.

Physical media isn't going anywhere but it is evolving (devolving?) once again into a super niche market reminiscent of the peak Laserdisc era. And, just like that time period, you'll have a subset of customers willing to pay handsomely for handsomely-packaged movies.

 

[Polyscope]

It seems to me reading the statistics that UHD is taking market shares from the BD and DVD crowd, which was guiding my preference. UHD is now almost as big as BD, but not quite. Now, what the overall pie is for all physical media I don't know. It might be shrinking overall and the UHD increases are just cannibalizing DVD/BD.

 

[Carl David]

Hi all, my name is Adam.

New member here asking some advice. And forgive me if I have to be a little vague in this early stage before I know if I should embark on it at all.

Background: I have 25+ career in film, but mainly on the advertising side. I'm experienced in deliverables (negs, IP's, IN's etc) as that's how I started, so any restoration effort, HDR/SDR transfer would be well within comfort zone. Audio side a little less so, but have people around me that could guide me.

Premise: Inspired by, firstly my love of film of course, but secondly by some of the the smaller niche players that release high quality content, like Severin, VS, Synapse and especially Second Sight etc. And with a keen eye towards premium packaging (many ideas floating around here but need to remain vague at this stage), in my uninformed mind it feels like where the future of UHD lies - smaller niche labels doing excellent work on both restoration and packaging and perhaps charging a bit more for it. To clarify, it would be UHD releases only - nothing else.

Longevity of format: I read all the doom and gloom about physical media's decline, but it's also true that UHD market is increasing in last few years statistics. Will it last? Not sure, but there's a growing sense within me (and perhaps within you), that a certain element of scarcity and collectability will play a longer part in its longevity. I do think hardcore enthusiast will want to own something physical - and streaming has shown just how much it cheapens the experience, the value has virtually gone to zero. I personally log into the streamers and find nothing I want to watch, because you in essence just keep "swiping left", hoping to see something even more exciting. But if I order a film in 4K Blu-ray, I immediately want to watch it and show it to friends who might not have seen it. You assign value to things that are harder to get or where there was an active choice in getting it.

This sentiment is, in essence, what I'm banking on as the whole fundament for this premise. If that's not the case, I don't have a foot to stand on.

Genre: Dream goal is to release niche cinema that has previously not been released or is hard to find. I'm not a horror nut, so would probably be more in art/drama/action/classic camp (but perhaps with a slight fantastical element to it) rather than the Synapse camp. I'm speaking to a few rights holders right now to try to get an idea of licensing costs etc.

Realistic: I will at this early stage - and perhaps forever - not be able to get my hands on more well known fare. It would initially be smaller, niche and foreign stuff I could realistically hope to license within the budget I have. I doubt sales of a niche title would exceed maybe 1000 copies. But, with excellent packaging and extras etc, I'm hoping this could become an item I can charge a little more for, maybe in the $50+ region (it would have to be around there to recoup any restoration costs etc).

Outcome: I'm not looking to reach everyone, just those who might have an interest in narrower, collectible cinema. I'm also not projecting to get rich, far from it, but it would of course have to carry its own costs and produce a small profit so that library could expand over time.

What do you guys think - is this a fool's errand financially - or realistic? I get it's a pretty broad question without knowing the specifics, but has anyone here done anything or been involved in similar boutique projects?

Firstly, I would recommend trying to find out what the margins are in the industry.

Most standard businesses have a profit margin of around 10% to 15%. That's the reality of owning a business in the real world.

If you can manage to own a business where the margins are above 20% you are doing very well indeed but in a lot of cases those types of healthy margins are either down to having a monopoly or are heavily subsidised by the government etc.

Secondly, once you can get a clear idea of what the average margins are in the industry the next thing to ask yourself is this:

"Can I operate at lower costs compared to my competition and deliver even better profit margins?"

Options to consider in this area will be things such as:

1) Operating the business from your own premises as opposed to having a dedicated business address or office etc.
2) Trying to do more tasks yourself as opposed to hiring more staff etc.

Due to starting a new company with no brand awareness or regular customers to rely on you are at a disadvantage in many aspects such as economy of scale, cash-flow and experience as to what works and what doesn't etc.

Criterion, Kino, Shout Factory and Arrow to name such a few have a core customer base that can almost be relied upon to purchase a certain percentage of any release they make in the future.

That is the advantage of running and owning a business over a long period of time and consistently delivering good service that customers expect after satisfactory repeat custom etc.

Therefore, you will not have the luxury of driving down costs in relation to getting discs pressed and your final product delivered to your customers etc.

The boutique labels will have some bargaining power in getting those costs down due to having the luxury of having a high quantity of discs pressed from which they will know a good quantity of those discs will be sold.

They will also be able to strike competitive deals with the delivery companies from having bulk orders shipped to customers etc.

Your risk will be higher because trying to determine how many copies of each particular product you will sell is going to be very hard as a consequence of having no experience of past sales etc.

Thirdly, assuming you will be starting with minimal capital you will have to devise a plan that will minimize your risks.

For example, if you have $100,000 dollars and decide to use most of that on 2 movies with a lot of that cost going on licensing and technical labour but they end up not selling well then your company has finished before it has even begun.

Try starting out by selecting titles with minimal licensing costs and that require little work to look suitable in HD/UHD and see where that leads you.

There is no need to rush and start out by spending vast resources aiming to deliver a Superior product where the risk is high and where you could potentially make more on other products that require less expense etc.

Building a brand will take years so also bear that in mind too.

Lastly, assuming you can get though the first year or two try to get a good relationship with a bank that you decide to use for your business who will be able to give you credit should you fall on hard times.

Regardless of how good a businessmen you may be the very best from time to time need instant liquidity when times get hard.

That liquidity could be the difference between going bankrupt and eventually building a very successful company.

One last thing.

Owning a business is probably the hardest thing you can do, It is not for pussycats. It is ruthless and you will need to be too if you want to succeed. The physical media market looks to be very competitive at the moment which could work in your favour as well as working against it.

Good luck if you do make the decision to go ahead with it. Running a business is a very rewarding field to be in and you will learn so much in such a short space of time.

I do try to recommend everyone to set up their own business at least once in their life.

Not for the money aspect but in terms of learning just how hard it really is. It will make you respect people who do actually own and run their own business especially those who have done so for a very long time.

 

[Polyscope]

Carl, thank you for the encouragement. I actually have run two small businesses for a long time, so appreciate the real talk - it's brutal and I don't foresee this being anything less. But, in essence, I can run it from my garage more or less and that's part of the charm as I get older and become more homebody-ish. Well, that's not quite true I think, because I think I'll have to attend quite a few events here and there to spread the word and drum up some sales. I see other small boutique brands like Synapse/Vinegar etc seem to be constantly on the road, but they're also much more focused towards horror. There seems to be a lot more horror events to attend than other film events. To be honest, not my favorite thing to be on the road selling (I'm not a natural sales person), but I do it with one of my other small businesses and it's just part of the game.

Another thing to take into the sales calculations, for sure. Do the more arty labels like Criterion also go to these horror and fantastical events? Comic Con?

 

[Carl David]

Carl, thank you for the encouragement. I actually have run two small businesses for a long time, so appreciate the real talk - it's brutal and I don't foresee this being anything less. But, in essence, I can run it from my garage more or less and that's part of the charm as I get older and become more homebody-ish. Well, that's not quite true I think, because I think I'll have to attend quite a few events here and there to spread the word and drum up some sales. I see other small boutique brands like Synapse/Vinegar etc seem to be constantly on the road, but they're also much more focused towards horror. There seems to be a lot more horror events to attend than other film events. To be honest, not my favorite thing to be on the road selling (I'm not a natural sales person), but I do it with one of my other small businesses and it's just part of the game.

Another thing to take into the sales calculations, for sure. Do the more arty labels like Criterion also go to these horror and fantastical events? Comic Con?

No idea.

I don't know much about the industry to be honest.

Would suspect each company all have their own unique marketing strategies. Kino for example have their own thread on this forum.

Don't know if they have an agreement with the site to have exclusive rights to that privilege or not but there are no others using this site to advertise their products like Kino.

The key will be I think to find your own niche as to what types of films you want to release and then finding relevant avenues to market those products once ready.

One thing is for sure. regardless of how good all the boutique labels are there will be opportunities for you that they have missed both in terms of films to be released and where to market them.

If you do ever get started feel free to message me about any potential release ideas.

I can't promise they will be good business ideas or not but I know of many excellent movies still yet to be released post 1940 to present day that deserve to be seen by physical media/film enthusiasts.

Obviously, I will have no idea if they will be expensive to license or not but it's still something to consider and give you food for thought.

What you might find is you might hit the jackpot by releasing movies you never dreamed of releasing that might not be regarded as worthy to your own personal/subjective tastes but will be by consumers and therefore make you profitable.

As I am sure you are aware from owning businesses before you can't make business personal.

You have to deliver a product or service that the market demands. What you might determine as worthy might not be by the public.

As an observer from the outside physical media is not as black and white as first appears.

There are different kinds of movie fans.

Some like 80s exploitation horror and others may like 50s noir etc.

I think a lot of trial and error will be involved which is why I recommended starting slowly and with projects that are not ambitious to let you get a feel for the market and find out what works and what doesn't.

Starting out in a garage sounds like a great idea.

 

[DaveF]

I have a friend who’s a self-published author. To my understanding, it’s a labor of love. Lots of work. Lots of time spent at local art festivals and mini-cons to sell a few copies on the weekend.

But there are the friends made along the way, fellow local authors and artists. And it brings in some vacation money.

A boutique movie house sounds like a lovely way to spend a great deal of retirement time not making much money. And maybe making new friends along the way as you discover weird little movies that hopefully 999 people want to own for their weird little collection. If that’s your passion, you should pursue it.

 

[Indy Guy]

It's true that with Criterion, their deluxe CAV editions, which were typically $100-$125 (the only $150 title that comes to mind is Brazil, and that was because that one had a lot of content, including two separate versions of the film) would have lower priced (typically $50-60) CLV editions. But those weren't that common. Most Criterion titles were only available in CLV.

In most cases, if there was more than one option for any given title it was a widescreen edition vs fullscreen edition, or an (earlier) analog sound edition vs a (later) digital sound edition. And those tended to be the same (or close enough to the same) price.

All Disney Classic animation was released on LD in $129 deluxe editions and $29 standard editions. The most expensive LD box (I still have) is a Japanese set on the artist Syd Mead. In addition to an LD bio it included 2 spectacular books on his art and 2 additional discs taking the viewer on a step by step painting lesson of his techniques.
The retail cost was an earthshattering $400, but I have such high regard for the artist that I had to have it!

 

[Dick]

Don't know if they have an agreement with the site to have exclusive rights to that privilege or not but there are no others using this site to advertise their products like Kino.

And, although foreign, Imprint/Via Vision.

 

[JohnRice]

But, in essence, I can run it from my garage more or less

You know, you really can. The logistics of this could be fairly simple, especially if you already have industry connections. Packaging has to be designed and produced, which can be done from anywhere. Rights and disc production are probably the toughest part. Once that's done, you really can just have a commerce web site, which you can do yourself using a service like Shopify. At that point, it's totally possible to handle fulfillment yourself. It's easy to get a commercial USPS account (I use Endicia) that gives significant discounts, or an agreement with UPS, who can offer some surprising deals. I don't believe it's really even an absolute necessity to travel much, if at all. You can get the word out completely online. The simpler your operation is, the easier it is to maintain.