Starting a UHD only boutique label - a fool's errand? (1 Viewer)

[Polyscope]

Hi all, my name is Adam.

New member here asking some advice. And forgive me if I have to be a little vague in this early stage before I know if I should embark on it at all.

Background: I have 25+ career in film, but mainly on the advertising side. I'm experienced in deliverables (negs, IP's, IN's etc) as that's how I started, so any restoration effort, HDR/SDR transfer would be well within comfort zone. Audio side a little less so, but have people around me that could guide me.

Premise: Inspired by, firstly my love of film of course, but secondly by some of the the smaller niche players that release high quality content, like Severin, VS, Synapse and especially Second Sight etc. And with a keen eye towards premium packaging (many ideas floating around here but need to remain vague at this stage), in my uninformed mind it feels like where the future of UHD lies - smaller niche labels doing excellent work on both restoration and packaging and perhaps charging a bit more for it. To clarify, it would be UHD releases only - nothing else.

Longevity of format: I read all the doom and gloom about physical media's decline, but it's also true that UHD market is increasing in last few years statistics. Will it last? Not sure, but there's a growing sense within me (and perhaps within you), that a certain element of scarcity and collectability will play a longer part in its longevity. I do think hardcore enthusiast will want to own something physical - and streaming has shown just how much it cheapens the experience, the value has virtually gone to zero. I personally log into the streamers and find nothing I want to watch, because you in essence just keep "swiping left", hoping to see something even more exciting. But if I order a film in 4K Blu-ray, I immediately want to watch it and show it to friends who might not have seen it. You assign value to things that are harder to get or where there was an active choice in getting it.

This sentiment is, in essence, what I'm banking on as the whole fundament for this premise. If that's not the case, I don't have a foot to stand on.

Genre: Dream goal is to release niche cinema that has previously not been released or is hard to find. I'm not a horror nut, so would probably be more in art/drama/action/classic camp (but perhaps with a slight fantastical element to it) rather than the Synapse camp. I'm speaking to a few rights holders right now to try to get an idea of licensing costs etc.

Realistic: I will at this early stage - and perhaps forever - not be able to get my hands on more well known fare. It would initially be smaller, niche and foreign stuff I could realistically hope to license within the budget I have. I doubt sales of a niche title would exceed maybe 1000 copies. But, with excellent packaging and extras etc, I'm hoping this could become an item I can charge a little more for, maybe in the $50+ region (it would have to be around there to recoup any restoration costs etc).

Outcome: I'm not looking to reach everyone, just those who might have an interest in narrower, collectible cinema. I'm also not projecting to get rich, far from it, but it would of course have to carry its own costs and produce a small profit so that library could expand over time.

What do you guys think - is this a fool's errand financially - or realistic? I get it's a pretty broad question without knowing the specifics, but has anyone here done anything or been involved in similar boutique projects?

 

[titch]

Hi all, my name is Adam.

New member here asking some advice. And forgive me if I have to be a little vague in this early stage before I know if I should embark on it at all.

Background: I have 25+ career in film, but mainly on the advertising side. I'm experienced in deliverables (negs, IP's, IN's etc) as that's how I started, so any restoration effort, HDR/SDR transfer would be well within comfort zone. Audio side a little less so, but have people around me that could guide me.

Premise: Inspired by, firstly my love of film of course, but secondly by some of the the smaller niche players that release high quality content, like Severin, VS and Synapse etc. And with a keen eye towards premium packaging (many ideas floating around here but need to remain vague at this stage), in my uninformed mind it feels like where the future of UHD lies - smaller niche labels doing excellent work on both restoration and packaging and perhaps charging a bit more for it. To clarify, it would be UHD releases only - nothing else.

Longevity of format: I read all the doom and gloom about physical media's decline, but it's also true that UHD market is increasing in last few years statistics. Will it last? Not sure, but there's a growing sense within me (and perhaps within you), that a certain element of scarcity and collectability will play a longer part in its longevity. I do think hardcore enthusiast will want to own something physical - and streaming has shown just how much it cheapens the experience, the value has virtually gone to zero. I personally log into the streamers and find nothing I want to watch, because you in essence just keep "swiping left", hoping to see something even more exciting. But if I order a film in 4K Blu-ray, I immediately want to watch it and show it to friends who might not have seen it. You assign value to things that are harder to get or where there was an active choice in getting it.

This sentiment is, in essence, what I'm banking on as the whole fundament for this premise. If that's not the case, I don't have a foot to stand on.

Genre: Dream goal is to release niche cinema that has previously not been released or is hard to find. I'm not a horror nut, so would probably be more in art/drama/action/classic camp (but perhaps with a slight fantastical element to it) rather than the Synapse camp. I'm speaking to a few rights holders right now to try to get an idea of licensing costs etc.

Realistic: I will at this early stage - and perhaps forever - not be able to get my hands on more well known fare. It would initially be smaller, niche and foreign stuff I could realistically hope to license within the budget I have. I doubt sales of a niche title would exceed maybe 1000 copies. But, with excellent packaging and extras etc, I'm hoping this could become an item I can charge a little more for, maybe in the $50+ region (it would have to be around there to recoup any restoration costs etc).

Outcome: I'm not looking to reach everyone, just those who might have an interest in narrower, collectible cinema. I'm also not projecting to get rich, far from it, but it would of course have to carry its own costs and produce a small profit so that library could expand over time.

What do you guys think - is this a fool's errand financially - or realistic? I get it's a pretty broad question without knowing the specifics, but has anyone here done anything or been involved in similar boutique projects?

There is a thread where people supposedly would be willing to plunk down $50 for a 4K UHD

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/whats-left-unreleased-on-4k-that-you-would-pay-50-to-own-on-day-one.382477/

90% mainstream pictures in the suggestions, almost all from major studios. There doesn't appear to be much interest on this forum (from the people who post their views here) of "narrower" cinema.

 

[JohnRice]

Does it have to be uhd only? There are tons of great niche titles that have only had a dvd release. In many cases I wonder if uhd is realistic, or even beneficial in some cases.

 

[Indy Guy]

I see a parallel in the high end books released by Easten Press. Their most beautiful bindings go for over $200! The same titles are easily available in cheap paperback, Kindle, hardbound and even comic illustrated versions, but Easton has been in the high end book business for over 50 years.
I think you have to get some A-list titles before you can risk gambling on niche films. You need to establish visibility as publishing the finest copies available...the exclusivity of getting access to 4K editions, would be hard to come by, but with deluxe packaging, extras, written content, signatures and unique photos...not anything resembling the swag used to stuff a typical boxed set... all bound into a true heirloom edition... you might find a major player willing to test the water. The combination of limited distribution and high retail pricepoints might sway a decision maker with a potential sales market proven to exist in the book arena.
A product in the $150 to $300 price range would be totally non compeditive with general release editions.
Criterian's Princess Bride 4K and the British boxed set of Indy's first 4 adventures comes close to looking like this concept (see below).
I have also seen upgraded cases and packaging privately sold to hold standard issue discs, but I don't know about the legality if any artwork used infringed on copyright images.
Easton books are often limited to 300/600 copies for books that look exceptional. This photo of Swiss Family Robinson is a good example. If you were to licence Disney’s film version in 4K, and package it with similar flourishes, I'd sign up in a heartbeat!

 

[Polyscope]

Thank you.

It's funny you should mention high end books, because that is a major inspiration for the ideas I have about packaging. I have been blown away by French luxury book publishers like Assouline, Synecdoche etc. They're a next level up from Taschen and Rizzoli etc and a real inspiration for what one could do with higher end BluRay packaging. To treat them like bound books.

But of course, a nice package and lots of extra stuff, doesn't make it success in itself. I think there's a little bit of sway possible with just that, a "if you build it they'll come" mentality, but ultimately it would have to be a title that people also have some interest in.

As for UHD only , I think to go through the effort and cost of a potential restoration of a negative or print, it would have to be UHD ultimately. I would want it to be the best it can be at that point. Which also goes hand in hand with the more limited edition/high quality think.

 

[JoshZ]

Well, it certainly won't be easy. As you know, the market for physical media is contracting, and you'd be competing against a number of already-established niche labels vying for the attention and dollars of the same small pool of collectors you'd be going after.

Additionally, you say your focus will not be horror. Maybe that's good, in that just about everyone else is pumping that well dry. However, horror fans do tend to be among the most obsessive collectors, whereas the art/drama/classics may be more difficult to get collectors excited about spending money on.

 

[haineshisway]

Polyscope, why don't you drop me a private message.

 

[Robert Harris]

Thank you.

It's funny you should mention high end books, because that is a major inspiration for the ideas I have about packaging. I have been blown away by French luxury book publishers like Assouline, Synecdoche etc. They're a next level up from Taschen and Rizzoli etc and a real inspiration for what one could do with higher end BluRay packaging. To treat them like bound books.

But of course, a nice package and lots of extra stuff, doesn't make it success in itself. I think there's a little bit of sway possible with just that, a "if you build it they'll come" mentality, but ultimately it would have to be a title that people also have some interest in.

As for UHD only , I think to go through the effort and cost of a potential restoration of a negative or print, it would have to be UHD ultimately. I would want it to be the best it can be at that point. Which also goes hand in hand with the more limited edition/high quality think.

The question of the resolution at which to produce a disc should not be based upon any factor other than what the imagery calls for.

If there is no more than 2k information, the addition of Dolby Vision adds little to the product. Please don’t base decisions upon sizzle. If that’s your goal, go for 70mm.

It is of zero consequence if a project necessitates what is blithely referred to as restoration, or not. Over 99.9% of releases need zero restoration.

As to packaging, I will only purchase overly large, “special” boxes if they are the only means of acquiring what is inside. Zero interest in owning a disc wrapped in ostrich hide, pure copper, or some form of unobtanium.

A high quality disc please, in a protective shell. Extras on the disc can be a nice addition, but ultimately are secondary.

 

[Robert Harris]

Polyscope, why don't you drop me a private message.

Wonderful idea. An offer from someone with actual knowledge.

 

[BRAD1963]

I think it would be wiser to begin with Blu-ray titles and build your label, then begin introducing UHD discs.

 

[JoshZ]

As to packaging, I will only purchase overly large, “special” boxes if they are the only means of acquiring what is inside. Zero interest in owning a disc wrapped in ostrich hide, pure copper, or some form of unobtanium.

You're telling me you don't own the ostrich hide limited edition of Jumanji: The Next Level?

 

[JohnRice]

The question of the resolution at which to produce a disc should not be based upon any factor other than what the imagery calls for.

Yeah, that's exactly why I asked about only releasing in UHD. A couple of the movies (of many) which come to mind that I would be interested in, if this is what you are talking about, are for example Last Night, and The Rapture. I genuinely doubt those would benefit at all from a 4K transfer. I expect most of the titles you would be releasing would be relatively low budget affairs.

 

[haineshisway]

Wonderful idea. An offer from someone with actual knowledge.

And do you think he's done so? Hint: Nope.

 

[willyTass]

If Nick Redman with all his industry connections couldn't pull it off in an era where people had disposable income ....

 

[jayembee]

While the idea of a UHD-only boutique sounds nice, I'm with those who argue that UHD might be overkill. While I confess that I can be a sucker for a UHD release of something I like, I'd be happier to get Blu-rays of more obscure titles that I'm interested in. On the downside, examples of such would likely be ones that don't have a fan base that would make them successful. Examples would be:

Romero
Rain Without Thunder
The Wizard of Speed and Time
Open Season

 

[Worth]

...A product in the $150 to $300 price range would be totally non compeditive with general release editions...

That's for sure. Personally, I'd never spend that kind of money on a disc.

 

[OliverK]

Thank you.

It's funny you should mention high end books, because that is a major inspiration for the ideas I have about packaging. I have been blown away by French luxury book publishers like Assouline, Synecdoche etc. They're a next level up from Taschen and Rizzoli etc and a real inspiration for what one could do with higher end BluRay packaging. To treat them like bound books.

But of course, a nice package and lots of extra stuff, doesn't make it success in itself. I think there's a little bit of sway possible with just that, a "if you build it they'll come" mentality, but ultimately it would have to be a title that people also have some interest in.

As for UHD only , I think to go through the effort and cost of a potential restoration of a negative or print, it would have to be UHD ultimately. I would want it to be the best it can be at that point. Which also goes hand in hand with the more limited edition/high quality think.

1. At least make those releases BD / UHD combo editions, this is VERY important and will only mean a very moderate cost increase while getting a significantly bigger potential customer base.

2. Try to also look into former mainstream titles if you can get them - they are niche too.

3. Consider partnering up with an existing label

4. Take @haineshisway up on his offer he knows a lot about what you are considering to get yourself into and he has been around the movie and music publishing and production for what I would guess is more than half a century - in any case for a very long time.
I am not always of the same opinion as he is about some releases but if I tried to go into releasing BD and UHDs on my own and he offered me to pm him I would do so immediately. It is possible that you will not be able to pm him yet because of your post count but if you post here requesting a pm then I am sure he will be happy to send one to you.

 

[Indy Guy]

That's for sure. Personally, I'd never spend that kind of money on a disc.

And yet people did for deluxe Laser Disc sets and continue to do so for a lot of things like pens, watches and books.

 

[jayembee]

And yet people did for deluxe Laser Disc sets and continue to do so for a lot of things like pens, watches and books.

Regarding LDs, that's true enough, but there were fewer options then than there are now. In the 80s and most of the 90s, it was either VHS (or, for some, Betamax) or LD. And in the earliest days, even buying a film on VHS/Beta would set you back $80.

Nowadays, you have DVD/BD/UHD, streaming, even hundreds of cable TV channels. Not to mention various illegal options that I shan't talk about further.

I certainly was willing to spend upwards of $150 for some Criterion titles, and more for some Japanese imports, but it's not something I'd be willing to spend for a single title nowadays.

 

[Indy Guy]

Not necessarily true. Most deluxe LD's were also issued as standard editions. A collector's mentality chooses to purchase the higher priced edition and that obsession has not changed.
Collectors after a deluxe book edition or high end watch have many options for reading a novel or telling time today, yet both niche markets are very lucrative.