Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!) (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

I'll start with repeating my initial reaction that I posted in the non-spoilers thread.

I don't quite know how to feel. Still taking it in. FORCE AWAKENS was very good. LAST JEDI was pretty awful. RISE OF SKYWALKER is neither very good or pretty awful. It manages to rise above the last film but has so much going on at once that it comes across as a mess with a rather satisfying ending.

Let's just say I expected to hate it and I didn't.


Things I liked...

1. No shirtless villain
2. No Mary Poppins type of space action
3. Rose had less than 12 minutes of screen time. That made me very happy. I hate her character.

The Harrison Ford cameo was great. Nice surprise. I am even more surprised Ford agreed to it as the only reason he did FORCE AWAKENS was if his character would be killed off.

They integrated the leftover Leia scenes very well. There was, of course, a little CGI action using younger Luke and Leia faces but it didn't bother me.

The only part I didn't really like was the big festival that was going on the planet. It seemed like it was only there to show alien creatures.

Oh, I agree that Billy Dee was wasted in this film. Very little screen time and very bad acting.

 

[Patrick H.]

Oof...this was a tough one. I actually thought the underlying story/payoffs were fairly solid (if predictable, but that's kinda a given based on Abrams' previous work). But the writing here was flat-out terrible and the filmmaking itself abandoned all pretense of fitting in with this franchise. It seemed like every scene occurs just to set up some convenient new Force power or plot twist, and the dialogue exists solely to explain it all to you as it happens. There's no thrill of discovery or figuring things out along with the heroes...you can always hear the gears grinding. New characters are pointless, and even most of the existing ones get steamrolled by exposition (wasting Ian McDiarmid is criminal). Utter crap writing. I think in an attempt to keep you from noticing, Abrams therefore shoots and edits everything to within an inch of its life. All the graceful wide shots and old-fashioned wipes that defined what Star Wars feels like are completely gone here...instead it's smash cuts and stuff flying in your face constantly for 2+ hours. (The Mandalorian may not be radical, but at least it always feels like a Star Wars adventure.) In a movie where it wants to convince you one HUGE event keeps happening after another, there's never ever any sense of scope or grandeur. It's numbing. Say what you will about Last Jedi - which I liked, and which this film definitely thumbs its nose at early & often - at least it always seemed that there were stakes. This just reinforced my long-simmering suspicion that Abrams is largely a charlatan who's only as good as his writers. On Force Awakens he had Lawrence Kasdan; here it's a guy who worked on Batman v Superman, so...yeah.

It's frustrating, because a few things worked. I liked C-3P0's little arc. Ridley and Driver still stand out because they always feel committed even in the midst of all the noise, and their sequence in the Death Star wreckage was the only one that carried any dramatic weight for me. As for Leia...clearly the thread for her was a leftover from Trevorrow's treatment, and they tried to pull it off with whatever they had and disperse the rest to Luke, Lando, and even Han Solo(?!). It's emotional but it doesn't really hold together in the end, and it also leans heavily into the meta sensibility that people ranted about in the previous episode (the film relies on our knowledge that Carrie Fisher is gone to generate sentiment they didn't have the footage for). But honestly that's on the lesser end of the problems spectrum. The fact they couldn't even be bothered to pay off most of the relationships between the new characters within this trilogy was way more jaw-dropping.

Nearly 15 years ago I remember leaving a midnight showing of Revenge of the Sith very tired and thinking "So that's that all there is? Huh." This experience has now made that film feel like a highly nuanced work of art. I sat down not expecting any life-changing event, but perfectly enthused for a good night out at the movies, and about halfway through I grimly realized I'd pretty much checked out and was just waiting for the ride to be over. My advice to future generations is if you start watching the saga, get to The Last Jedi and enjoy it and feel fulfilled, just stop there. You won't gain much further by seeing this thing.

 

[tempest21]

Won't get into why the Disney sequel has been so abysmal. I'll just comment on the final saga film itself.

Rise of Skywalker feels like Disney and Lucasfilm realized in the 11th hour that "we need something to entice original Star Wars fans to see the movie". What I mean is that the whole Palpatine reveal felt desperate, on the part of Lucasfilm, that he was added as an afterthought. There was no build up as to who was pulling the strings, behind the scenes. With the prequel trilogy, there was always the backstory about "a mysterious force orchestrating events", whom we later found out to be Palpatine. But, the Disney sequel, there was no build up. Kathleen Kennedy, J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson should have been leading up to a similar plot device.

What also threw me was "how does Rey know how to use a lightsaber, force healing, mind control and everything without any formal training". Rey was presented as "someone who doesn't know the force but has instant knowledge". I imagine that someone at Lucasfilm would try and explain it as "she has genetic knowledge" but the fact that Rey's backstory was always kept secret because Lucasfilm didn't want to reveal anything was just a lot of hogwash.

The one thing I will say is that when I compare Rise of Skywalker to The Force Awakens and even to The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker is the better film but I don't feel it's a qualified successor to the previous trilogies that came before. I think that The Last Jedi should have focused more on Rey's training, just as Empire Strikes Back focused on Luke's training and it would have made Rise of Skywalker make more sense. I'll also say that Daisy Ridley seems to have more confidence in Rise of Skywalker, where it comes to portraying Rey and doesn't feel as agenda-driven as the previous films.

However, the writing? Who wrote this crap? The story felt like it was trying balance a movie with far too many characters and not enough screen time. Lando was so under-used, it wasn't funny. But that whole "I am all the Sith" and "I am all the Jedi" was like the writer put his finger into an active light socket, one too many times. Talk about cheesy dialogue. I think the reports about there being several versions of this movie may be true and that the editors just cut and pasted between the different versions.

However, the film is far better than the first two installments in this sequel trilogy. It's like I always say, you can only do the best you can with what you're given and I think the editors did their level best. Final words? It tries to have the feel of the original Star Wars films and at some points, it does succeed. I think what's needed is new leadership at Lucasfilm but I don't seriously think this is the end of trilogy films or saga films. Lucasfilm could potentially revisit the nostalgia and produce some new saga trilogy films, albeit, with different characters and actors. Hell, even Adam Driver pulled off a better performance in this film than in the previous two.

My grade? I would give it a solid C+. It does have faults but it does try to be a Star Wars film.

 

[Tino]

Won't get into why the Disney sequel has been so abysmal. I'll just comment on the final saga film itself.

Good idea!

 

[Sam Favate]

I liked it. I think I liked it a lot. While the first hour is a bit of a jumble, it's just a matter of things moving really fast. It feels wrong to say this but what Star Wars has almost always needed was more exposition. That scene in Revenge of the Sith when Palpatine talks to Anakin at the opera house is a key scene for a number of reasons. Yes, it is well acted, but it is also giving the audience vital information about the entire saga. This movie had scenes that came close to that, but never committed to the exposition the way the opera scene did.

That said, Yea! for fan service. These movies are supposed to be crowd pleasers, and to do so they have to please the crowd! Fans are not inherently stupid and not giving an audience what they want isn't always the right thing to do. I believe the choices made in this movie to satisfy the fans were the right ones.

Rey being a Palpatine is a good move. In a way, it ties this entire trilogy together and makes Palpatine the enemy of all three films, even though we don't see him until now. (I'm still not clear on how she was a Palpatine. Her father was his son, is that right? But her father showed no force abilities? That part could have used some explaining.) Also, wasn't it made canon that Palpatine was Anakin's father? That he created life in Shmi that became Anakin? If that's the case, it makes sense that he would have seeded many heirs in the galaxy. (It also makes Rey and Kylo related.)

I liked the stuff on the planet where they met Zorii and the cute little guy. It brought back the Nazi occupation thing that was part of the first Star Wars movie with stormtroopers (their very name comes from the Nazis) knocking on doors. I also liked how they showed fascism only being destroyed when all the people come together.

What they did with Carrie Fisher was amazing. They made her a vital part of this movie. I heard sobs when Leia died, and again when Chewie mourned her. Huge amount of credit to Abrams and Terrio for crafting that.

Mark Hamill was terrific. He seemed much more relaxed this time. I love that he caught the lightsaber and handed it back to her. Great also to see Harrison Ford. Why is everyone so surprised that he showed up? I think the stuff about him insisting his character be killed off in Episode VII is a myth. Yes, he asked George Lucas to kill off Han Solo in Return of the Jedi. I have never seen anything indicating he carried that feeling with him for 30+ years until the Force Awakens. It was good to see him, and his part is also key to the story.

I liked seeing C-3PO with a bigger part. Too bad R2-D2 couldn't have had one. I really liked Jannah, the woman who befriended Finn. I thought her character was great. I'd like to see more of her. I was sorry not to see as much of Rose, since I thought she was the best thing about The Last Jedi.

Adam Driver was very good, and he pulled off something I didn't think was possible: Redeeming Kylo Ren. It wouldn't have worked without the appearance of Han Solo. (So much for Hayden Christenson's rumored cameo, eh? Too bad, it would have been nice to see.)

But the movie really rests on the shoulders of Daisy Ridley, who was just great. If she wasn't up to it, the movie wouldn't have worked. The whole movie - and the whole trilogy - is Rey's story and her transformation. That final scene with her is absolutely perfect.

I think this is the best film in the sequel trilogy. I was lukewarm on TFA, and did not care for The Last Jedi. This, though, can stand with the upper tier of Star Wars films.

 

[Cranston37+]

My short but sweet review:

It’s a fine movie and all but I just can’t help feel that after 3 movies we basically ended right back where we were in 1983.

 

[Coressel]

Saw it last night.

I absolutely, honestly and unabashedly loved this movie. It had me from start to finish and wouldn't let go.
I don't see it as a "course-correction." I see it as a sequel. One might as well call ROTJ a "course-correction" to ESB.
This movie actually makes TFA and TLJ better, and I really liked those movies too (despite a few minor qualms I had about specific details). Hell, for me it's a much better finale than ROTJ (which I've bitched about since 1983 anyway, so that's just me). ROTJ and TPM both could have used the Act I pacing that TROS has.

Also, this is one of the only Star Wars movies in which the acting did not make me cringe.

Incorporating Carrie Fisher into this movie was damn near flawless. I didn't even once think about the fact that she had died before they shot this movie.

One of my biggest questions from Ep.7 & 8 was answered - Who the hell was Snoke? It was answered as well as it needed to be. There are at least two Snokey figures in tanks early in the film, and Palpatine says "I created Snoke." That's enough explanation for me.

One random observation based on what others have said around the internets:

- "Palpatine's return isn't explained." Yes, it is. Or at least as much as it needs to be. This is mythology, not sci-fi. We have no problem with stuff like this happening in Tolkien or Ovid.

The ending was powerful and beautiful on every level for me.

I'll be seeing it again on Sunday, and I'll see if anything strikes me as objectionable the 2nd time around.

 

[WillG]

3. Rose had less than 12 minutes of screen time. That made me very happy. I hate her character.

The Harrison Ford cameo was great. Nice surprise. I am even more surprised Ford agreed to it as the only reason he did FORCE AWAKENS was if his character would be killed off.

Yeah, was never a big fan of Rose, so I was relieved that she was not a big part of the movie. Her purpose in TLJ was to inject a (superfluous for a SW film) social justice (forgive the terminology) perspective into the movie and I don’t think doing that is JJs bag. He’s a crowd pleaser first and foremost.

As far as Ford, surprised but not surprised at the same time. I figured JJ wouldn’t be able to resist one more appearance of Ford. I was aware that Ford always wanted Han to be killed off, but his appearance in Rise doesn’t change the fact that Han was killed in Awakens.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

My short but sweet review:

It’s a fine movie and all but I just can’t help feel that after 3 movies we basically ended right back where we were in 1983.

Yeah, I see that. Another dead Emperor, another triumph of a rebellion.

Who says remnants of the Whatever Order won't rise again and put us back to square one?

While I mostly enjoyed the Sequel Trilogy, I do think it would've been nice to get a series without stand-ins for the OT's Rebellion and Empire...

 

[Jason_V]

Yeah, was never a big fan of Rose, so I was relieved that she was not a big part of the movie. Her purpose in TLJ was to inject a (superfluous for a SW film) social justice (forgive the terminology) perspective into the movie and I don’t think doing that is JJs bag. He’s a crowd pleaser first and foremost.

Sure he is. In the final celebration, there is a very quick shot of two women kissing.

 

[WillG]

Sure he is. In the final celebration, there is a very quick shot of two women kissing.

Exactly it was just a blink and you’ll miss it shot, no where near as in your face as casino planet.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Sure he is. In the final celebration, there is a very quick shot of two women kissing.

So I did see that. I thought that odd.

 

[Jason_V]

Exactly it was just a blink and you’ll miss it shot, no where near as in your face as casino planet.

He is a social justice guy. Exactly my point. Didn't JJ also write Force Awakens? The one where Rey and Finn and Poe are introduced? The central characters of this trilogy? I don't see how you want to lay this at Johnson's feet and not at Abrams.

 

[Jake Lipson]

(So much for Hayden Christenson's rumored cameo, eh? Too bad, it would have been nice to see.)

He had one, just not physically. I'm pretty sure he was in the voices of the Jedi talking to Rey in the climax.

Does anyone know exactly what the opening crawl said? There was some stuff in the first paragraph I didn't finish reading before it disappeared.

 

[TravisR]

Does anyone know exactly what the opening crawl said? There was some stuff in the first paragraph I didn't finish reading before it disappeared.

From Wookieepedia:

The dead speak!
The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast,
a threat of REVENGE in the
sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE.

GENERAL LEIA ORGANA dispatches secret agents
to gather intelligence, while REY,
the last hope of the Jedi,
trains for battle against
the diabolical FIRST ORDER.

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader KYLO REN rages
in search of the phantom Emperor,
determined to destroy any threat to his power....

 

[Robert Crawford]

I just got back from my third viewing in less than 24 hours and I'm liking the film more with each viewing. The Dolby Cinema presentation was excellent. Again, my main criticism of the movie is that there was non-stop action which didn't allow the movie to breath just a little which caused it to be messy. Also, the kiss was not needed.

 

[Robert Crawford]

They integrated the leftover Leia scenes very well. There was, of course, a little CGI action using younger Luke and Leia faces but it didn't bother me.

It didn't bother me either and I'm glad they showed a brief scene in which we know that Luke trained Leia which I know many people wonder about.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I don't get all the Rose hate, but whatever. As to Billy Dee Williams, I thought he did fine with the role he was given in this movie.

 

[WillG]

He is a social justice guy. Exactly my point. Didn't JJ also write Force Awakens? The one where Rey and Finn and Poe are introduced? The central characters of this trilogy? I don't see how you want to lay this at Johnson's feet and not at Abrams.

I guess for me it’s a difference in execution. Is JJs politics woven into the DNA of these films, sure, but Johnson/Rose was a big fat hairy mole. To paraphrase TLJ “we’re going to the worst place in the galaxy” where? Some kind of bubbling lava planet with fire breathing dragons, some kind of acid mines planet or any other place that could horribly kill you in the blink of an eye? No, a planet where rich people hang out. “Look down there, what do you see?” To me, hamfisted and superfluous for a Star Wars movie. Then there was the “that’s how we’re going to win, not by destroying what we hate but by saving what we love” ummmmmm really? Because I seem to recall a great deal of days being saved by destroying the things we hate in these movies (yes, I know that saving the things we love also played a part, though the rebels had already won by the time Vader turned back to the light and saved Luke). Eh, sorry for the rant but that material for me was eye-roll-ey and groan-ey

 

[Sam Favate]

We'll see if I feel as positively after tomorrow's viewing, with the family. I can tell you that two years ago, I came out of my first viewing of The Last Jedi cold, hoping the next viewing would make me feel something, but it didn't. This time, I left thrilled and moved.

(BTW, I feel I need my own viewing of these movies, just one where I don't hear "Where's my drink?" "Can you open this?" "And this?" "My M&Ms fell on the floor.")