Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Non-Spoilers!

Jason_V

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What you call arrogance, I call optimism.

I like stories with characters that have a hopeful, optimistic point of view. It's a big part of who Luke is. If I wanted a constant barrage of pessimism I would just watch the news.

Luke represented the best of what a person could be, and it's the breaking down of that character trait that hurt the most. The ridiculous throwaway line that went like "You don't need Luke Skywalker. What did you think was going to happen here? Did you think I was going to walk out with a laser sword and take down the whole First Order?"

Luke was never asked to take on the entire empire on his own previously. Every major victory against the empire was a team effort. He knows this. For him to suggest that his help was sought so that everyone could relax while he went to win against the first order is insanely bad out of character writing. The line was almost like a message to the audience - 'how foolish of you to believe in heroes'.

Meh.
Nah, it's not optimism. I've been in this position of thinking I could change a person and "save" them. That was my arrogance. There is nothing optimistic about it. I know that now, looking back on that experience with my ever progressing age. Luke tried to change Vader in RotJ. He said as much...there was good still in him and Luke could turn him. There was also arrogance on the part of the Emperor thinking he and Vader together could turn Luke (or is that optimism on his part, too?).

No hero is infallible. Trying to kill Ben Solo was what made him run away. That scared the ever-loving crap out of him, as it should have.

Luke was never asked previously to take on the Empire on his own, but he tried. Instead of rendezvousing with the fleet in TESB and then mounting a rescue of Han, Leia, Chewie and the droids, he went at it alone. Against Vader, against the Empire's forces on Bespin and without being fully trained. That was arrogance, that he could take on that group alone. Rushing into a situation without exploring all the possibilities and thinking you can solve everything isn't optimism. That's foolhardiness.
 

Simon Massey

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Thank you for making my point. That is a perfect example of a believably MOTIVATED Luke. No one is confused by, or disbelieves why Luke went and kicked Vader's ass. The entire movie led up to it. It wasn't brushed aside in a quick flimsy flashback.

I wish I would have thought of this example myself.
What on earth more does Johnson need to show you ? Luke didn't fall, he had a moment of weakness!!! Thats it!!! Doesn't he even use the word "fleeting" when he describes the scene ? No build=up, no complicated narrative or plot motivation. He had one fleeting fallible moment of weakness and it cost him dearly because it was witnessed. What else do you need to see ? Id would have found it a hell of a lot more unbelievable if he had somehow gradually developed feelings or misgivings about Ben/Kylo that somehow motivated him to take it to a level where is is going to kill him. But a fleeting moment of anger/fear ?? The driving emotions around which pretty much the entire saga has commented on at various points ?
 
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joshEH

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Digging that the Endor Apocalypse is a real thing, now. So cool.

Hopefully Endor is covered in charred Ewok-corpses.

Luke's opening narration and how it's used to sinister effect at the end. What a gorgeous summation of the series' grand generational sweep, the young being left to deal with the good and the bad of the previous age. "Every generation has a legend," indeed.

Rey FLIPPING UP TO MURDER KYLO'S TIE FIGHTER ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

Lando's joyous laughter as he flies the Falcon with Chewie, back where he belongs.

Poe and Finn's new outfits I MEAN GODDAMN DO THEY LOOK FINE.

A-Wings!

It's ridiculous, but I love JJ's utter dedication to combining huge SW wreckage with real-life environments. It looks fricking great every time.
 

Simon Massey

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And just to add to that Luke was my hero growing up as a child and I love the fact that I could aspire so much to want to be Luke as a child and yet as an adult, I can relate identify with the older Luke as being someone who is flawed and makes mistakes but still always tries to do what he sees as the right thing. If thats not a character that has been created to span generations, I don't know what is.
 

Simon Massey

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Looks like there are definitely setting up a change after Episode 9. Seems likely Kennedy will stand down after these films are done as well if they are waiting and not putting films into production until after IX. A shame but Im sure they probably have someone else lined up for it.
 

JimmyO

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Nah, it's not optimism. I've been in this position of thinking I could change a person and "save" them. That was my arrogance. There is nothing optimistic about it. I know that now, looking back on that experience with my ever progressing age.
But you're not a hero struggling for a cause against an oppressive overwhelming tyrannical army, with a family bloodline that is strong with the force.

Also, just FYI - Luke *was* successful in saving Vader, was he not?
 

Jason_V

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But you're not a hero struggling for a cause against an oppressive overwhelming tyrannical army, with a family bloodline that is strong with the force.
Everyone's personal struggle does feel like you are up against an oppressive overwhelming tyrannical army. So no, I don't agree with that. That diminishes every struggle because it doesn't have these huge, universe-spanning implications.

Also, just FYI - Luke *was* successful in saving Vader, was he not?
Not in the way he wanted to be...not in the way his arrogance told him the saving should happen. He was expecting to get Anakin back in flesh and blood. Anakin being saved was much Luke's doing as his own. Someone can certainly show you the way to salvation, but you have to take the steps yourself. Luke pointed the way; Vader did the walking.
 

Simon Massey

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LOVED the teaser. Like wow. The music...just enough imagery.

I'll probably see the movie when it comes out. ;)
Tim I'm waiting for the day you match your viewings of Attack of the Clones at the cinema :) . Back in the day I remember you were well over 10!! Will this be the one ??
 

Tim Glover

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Tim I'm waiting for the day you match your viewings of Attack of the Clones at the cinema :) . Back in the day I remember you were well over 10!! Will this be the one ??
Good times.... that was INSANE :) I think I needed some escapism in my life. :)

I 'only' saw TFA 3 times in theaters and the same for TLJ and they are much better films. ;)

You guys know me well though. Seeing a Star Wars film in a great theater has been among life's best memories. Truly has.

It's a part of my heritage as much as anything really. Obviously family & faith are huge BUT Star Wars has played a vital role in so much of my life.

Bittersweet to have this end...
 

Jonathan Perregaux

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Well, only 25% of the title got spoiled by YouTube before I watched the teaser proper, despite efforts to blur my eyes and look away and peer vaguely at thumbnails. I caught the full title at the end as I hoped. Teaser was pretty good, I thought.
 

benbess

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My personal rankings of the Star Wars movies....

1. The Last Jedi
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Star Wars: A New Hope
4. Rogue One
5. The Force Awakens
6. Return of the Jedi
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Solo
9. Revenge of the Sith
10. Attack of the Clones ("I don't like sand...it's coarse, rough, and irritating—and it gets everywhere!" The rest of the movie is actually pretty good imho, but those sand moments knock it down big time for me.)
 
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Carabimero

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he had a moment of weakness!!! Thats it!!!
A moment of weakness is one thing. I think a moment of weakness was clearly motivated in TLJ. But calling it quits and running away to an island is not a moment of weakness. Luke not only fell, he crashed. Granted he didn't burn, but he fell and crashed. Hard. It's impossible for me to see what he has become on that island and characterize that as a "moment" of weakness.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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I love the title.
Me too! It cements the fact that this trilogy of trilogies is the story of the Skywalker family. It suggests a number of intriguing possibilities. And I like that it keeps the tradition of having "of" in the title of the third movie.

And I love that they're going with a blue Star Wars logo for the marketing of this movie, rounding out the primary colors after TFA had a yellow logo and TLJ had a red logo.

This is the best teaser of the three new saga movies.
I agree on this as well. Instead of showing us a bunch of disconnected stuff, it feels like a cohesive statement.

I'm ok if IX retcon's Rey's origins in XIII if they do it well.
I feel the same way. I understand why Johnson made the decision he made, I can make an argument for why it was justified, but I always come back to George Lucas's statement that the sequel trilogy should be about Darth Vader's grandchildren. For that reason, I was rooting for Rey to be a Skywalker.

That being said, the title doesn't necessarily indicate that Rey is Luke's biological daughter. It could be that she adopts his last name as a rallying cry for the resistance. It could be that the title doesn't refer to Rey at all. There's a number of interesting directions it could go.

Now we're supposed to believe that Luke nearly kills his nephew in his sleep in cold blood because there might be bad in him.
It's important to note that those flashbacks shouldn't be taken literally. They're (respectively) Kylo Ren's memory of that moment, and Luke's memory of that moment. They're similar but different. I don't think it ever in reality got beyond a momentary thought.

I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth but my own. Hamill is on record disagreeing with "everything" Johnson wrote about Luke in episode VIII. I know many fans who cos-play who won't dress up as Luke anymore and encourage their children not to go trick or treating as Luke. I've read many more rational, articulate comments online about fans who feel the same way. To me that's heartbreaking.
Hamill is on record as saying that he was initially frustrated with Johnson's portrayal of the character, but felt a responsibility to deliver on Johnson's vision. He's also stated that he appreciated it a lot more after seeing the final product.

I think it's a misrepresentation to go from that to saying that Hamill present-tense is against the entirety of Luke in The Last Jedi.

More than any other reason it's because Luke was my hero growing up.
I think this is the crux of the differing perspectives. You wanted The Last Jedi to reflect the Luke you've carried in your head for the last however many decades. Johnson only owed an allegiance to what we actually saw in the previous movies that featured him.

So show me that process. Spend real screen time on that happening.
The structure of the Saga films simply does not allow for this; they exist in the present tense. All of the events you wanted to see took place between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens. Johnson inherited a Luke Skywalker who had been living in the same remote place for many years. It was his responsibility to come up with an explanation that justified that. In my opinion, he delivered on that in a way that preserved the decency and integrity of the character.

Luke represented the best of what a person could be, and it's the breaking down of that character trait that hurt the most. The ridiculous throwaway line that went like "You don't need Luke Skywalker. What did you think was going to happen here? Did you think I was going to walk out with a laser sword and take down the whole First Order?"
This line was a setup for the climax, when Luke more or less does exactly that. But it also speaks to his humility; rather than the make the mistakes the original Jedi Order made, mistakes and arrogance that burdened the galaxy with Palpatine and the Galactic Empire, he was willing to sacrifice his own ego and desires. He was mistaken in his methods, but his objective demonstrated (for me) wonderful maturity and growth from the Luke Skywalker we left at the end of Return of the Jedi.

It's ridiculous, but I love JJ's utter dedication to combining huge SW wreckage with real-life environments. It looks fricking great every time.
You and me both.

To me the greatest moment in these Star Wars films was when Vader turned on the Emperor. I can remember the movie audiences going nuts at that moment.
It is a great moment. At the same time, I hope we don't get a redemption moment for Kylo Ren, simply because it would feel like a retread. And I hope the movie doesn't resurrect Palpatine somehow. It feels like his story is done.

Luke not only fell, he crashed. Granted he didn't burn, but he fell and crashed. Hard. It's impossible for me to see what he has become on that island and characterize that as a "moment" of weakness.
I don't see it as weakness at all; I see it as strength. His father wanted to save those close to him so badly that it plunged him into the Dark Side for decades. Luke didn't allow himself to repeat his father's mistake. Yes, he got too dogmatic about it. But his general premise was sound: better not to have any Luke Skywalker at all than a Luke Skywalker corrupted by the Dark Side.
 

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