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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Non-Spoilers!

Discussion in 'Movies' started by SamT, Feb 22, 2018.

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  1. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    This is going to sound cruder in writing than it does in my head, but I was thinking about this, and Rian Johnson killing Luke in The Last Jedi actually provides a way for J.J. Abrams to use Leia by proxy, if he feels that it is necessary to have something come to Rey by way of her.

    Assuming that Leia also dies, then she and Luke would, hypothetically, be reunited in death. It makes sense that Leia wouldn't have enough experience with the Force to project herself as a Force ghost (her use of it in The Last Jedi notwithstanding, which made sense to me as an instinctual emergency response, she hasn't been particularly attuned to the use of it.) So, that explains, in-story, why she wouldn't be able to make herself visible.

    However, I assume that Luke will be involved in Episode IX in a Force ghost capacity, probably in the same sort of cameo manner in which Obi-Wan/Ben was in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. If so, Abrams and Terrio have the opportunity to use Luke to speak for Leia in passing a message to either Rey or Kylo Ren or both. ("Leia wanted me to tell you....", etc.)

    This obviously wouldn't be their first choice if Carrie Fisher were still with us, but in terms of allowing Leia to sort of by proxy have a conversation with either of these two characters, I think it would work, if there is some piece of information that they believe is essential to come from Leia.
     
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  2. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
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    So in your scenario they'd be using a CGI Carrie Fisher in the Leia Force ghost scenes? I sure hope not.
     
  3. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    No, there wouldn't be Leia Force ghost scenes, because she doesn't have that ability. What I'm suggesting is that they use Luke as Leia's proxy. Like, if they want a certain message to come from Leia, then Luke delivers it to Rey or Kylo on her behalf, and simply says that he discussed it with her, which doesn't mean we see her at all, but that he is relaying a message from her. (Luke can have discussed it with her previously, in something off-screen we don't see, before appearing to whomever to deliver the message.) This isn't perfect, but I think it would work.
     
  4. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    I don't think an overture is the best idea because I think it's important for the main title theme over the opening crawl to continue to be the first major piece of Williams' music that we hear IN THE MOVIE. Otherwise, it would kind of dilute the impact of that theme. But I'm sure that both Williams and Abrams will be treating this as the final film of nine, rather than just three, so I would expect there to be callbacks to old themes, both in the credits and otherwise.
     
  5. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
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    Ah, my apologies for misreading your post Jake.
     
  6. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    That's fine.

    And...obviously...this is not the way that anybody would prefer that this have to go, because Leia should be in it because Carrie should be here.

    But, as an unfortunately necessary alternative, I like the idea of using Luke to speak for her better than any other way that they could conceivably maintain the idea of the character's presence.

    It's obvious that the original plan for Episode IX would have had to include a scene between Kylo Ren and his mom. If they use Force ghost Luke to deliver a message, that would be a way of kind-of-sort-of still getting to have a version of that scene, which is not as good as if Carrie were stlil here to do it herself. But it might better to do it via Luke than not having it at all.
     
  7. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
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    Personally, I'd rather see Leia's character arc concluded in a less ambiguous way. Having a Force ghost Luke relay messages from her posthumously seems, well, a bit cheesy and lazy to me. I hope they don't go down that road.
     
  8. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    If they did it once or twice (like, say once for Rey and once for Kylo Ren) that wouldn't bother me as an acceptable alternative.

    If they were to do it as a continued thing, where it happens again and again and again throughout the narrative, then that would obviously be cheap. But if it was well-executed and carefully chosen, once, then, sure. Because otherwise she dies off-screen and we don't get to have her as part of this story at all.
     
  9. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
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    Well, since we really don't know what footage of Carrie they still have available, I'm not so sure that something involving with Leia can't be creatively edited into IX. Whatever the filmmakers do, I hope it's done to serve the story and not added gratuitously, simply out of nostalgia for Ms. Fisher and her character.
     
  10. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    I thought about this, too, before The Last Jedi, as to whether they would be able to save any footage intended for it to be used in Episode IX instead. But then Rian Johnson said that they kept the film as-is after her death and that they used everything they had of her. I'm paraphrasing, because I don't remember where he said this so I can't pull the exact quote, but I remember him saying it. And obviously they hadn't shot anything intended for Episode IX prior to her death.

    Agreed. I have every confidence that they will do the best job they can.
     
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  11. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    I fully expect to see Luke, Leia and Han as force ghosts in this one, much as we did Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda in ROTJ. I know Leia and Han aren't Jedi. I still expect it.
     
  12. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    How would they accomplish that for Leia? Johnson said thy used all their footage of her in The Last Jedi, and Kathleen Kennedy has also said they will not be creating a CGI version of her for this film. That to me seems to indicate clearly that Leia will not appear onscreen at all, which is why I got to thinking about my Luke-as-Leia's-proxy idea.
     
  13. JimmyO

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    I hope you're wrong. Leia as a force ghost would make sense since she is a skywalker and is force sensitive.

    Explaining Han as a force ghost would require logic that would made midichlorians sound perfectly reasonable and acceptable in comparison.

    You know, something along the lines of "Leia and Han, having had sex, caused Han to absorb some force energy". My eye roll would be audible.
     
  14. JimmyO

    JimmyO Berserker
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    I like your idea of Luke passing on messages for Leia, Jake. It will be difficult to come up with any way for Leia to be part of the movie at all beyond someone delivering the news that she's died, and leave it at that. I think your idea makes a lot of sense actually.
     
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  15. Greg.K

    Greg.K Screenwriter

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    I could see them reusing a head shot from some scene or other, with a body double for a force ghost scene at the end. I wouldn't mind that at all. It would be a nice farewell nod to the character (and to Carrie). I can't see it for Han, though.

    As a bonus, the Internet outrage about the "fact" that there's no way Leia was strong enough in the Force to do such a thing would be amusing.

     
  16. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I've got no problem with Princess Leia having enough ability in the Force to have saved herself in space in The Last Jedi but I don't think that she should become a Force ghost since that seems to be an arcane and/or difficult ability. However,
    that convinced me. :)
     
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  17. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    I'm wondering what that would sound like... :blink:

    :D
     
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  18. Jonathan Perregaux

    Jonathan Perregaux Screenwriter

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    A marble in a tin can?
     
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  19. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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  20. Chip_HT

    Chip_HT Supporting Actor

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    The theory I've gone with is that Han probably would have been a Jedi had Anakin not killed them all in Episode III.
     

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