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Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread(Warning: Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Bryan^H, Dec 14, 2017.

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  1. Johnny Angell

    Johnny Angell Played With Dinosaurs Member

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    The internet brings out the wors in people. A lot of these people wouldn’t have the courage to say to someone’s face what they type in the comfort of the rock from which they sometimes crawl out from under.
     
  2. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    100%.

    I also think Jake Lloyd honestly did the best job he could. While he is certainly a visionary director and talented at worldbuilding, it doesn't seem like George Lucas is particularly good at working with actors and giving them proper guidance. Jake was obviously not tremendously experienced when he was cast, and would likely have benefited from better direction than he was likely given.
     
  3. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
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    This fanatical abuse really started with The Phantom Menace in earnest.

    I remember a notorious website called Star Wars vs Titanic created when TPM opened tracking its grosses hoping it would beat Titanic

    Members would often wish Aids and cancer on anyone with an opposing view. Even some members of this site at the time were participants.

    Truly pathetic.
     
  4. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    And I think that's when the "fan editing" started too. There was that huge deal about "the Phantom Edit" where someone re-edited the film in a way to make it "better", which then spawned a whole subculture of fans slicing and dicing the movies to "fix mistakes". Rather than just accepting that George Lucas made a movie they didn't like, they felt that not only did they know better than Lucas, but that they had the absolute right to create and distribute their own versions of the movies. That strikes me as being a little strange, and I think it shows a certain amount of disrespect for the creators of the original work (not to mention a lack of respect for someone else's copyrighted material) to do so. I think it speaks to a certain entitlement issue that seems to overlap with some of the complaints coming from less reputable corners of the world about the newer films, this idea that people are entitled to have the movies constructed according to their preconceived notions of what it should be, and if they don't get what they want, they're then free to pirate the content or troll the people who made it.
     
  5. RobertR

    RobertR Executive Producer

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    Apart from the distribution aspect, the editing of the movie to suit an individual's taste doesn't bother me nearly as much as it seems to bother you. If someone's watching a fan edit in his house, I find that no more objectionable than someone making a party mix from different record albums, or photoshopping himself or others into a picture. You're still free to watch the officially sanctioned version. You seem to be saying "oooh! someone's watching something behind closed doors in a way I don't like!". I find that rather strange. Personally, I love watching the OT without the post 1997 edits.
     
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  6. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I think you might be misunderstanding my point. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with tinkering for one’s own pleasure at home. I think there’s something very weird about taking someone else’s copyrighted work, re-editing it into something entirely new and different, and then putting it online while saying, “The professionals who made this movie had no idea what they were doing, so I made it better. Lucas sucks but I rule!”

    I’m not talking about fan attempts to make an HD non-special edition of the original trilogy. I’m talking about people re-editing Phantom Menace to remove Jar Jar or people re-editing TLJ to remove Rose and then claiming that they’ve made something better than the original filmmakers.
     
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  7. RobertR

    RobertR Executive Producer

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    It would be silly of such people to claim that such edits are better for everyone (as silly as saying that no one can question Lucas' creative decisions on Star Wars), but if they want to say it's better for them, then it's whatever floats their boat.
     
  8. The Autistic Asexual

    BANNED

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    If it wasn't for fan-editing we probably wouldn't have the Despecialized Editions of the original Star Wars trilogy. ;)
     
  9. Message #1589 of 1644 Jun 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    In case you didn't notice (or didn't read) it, Josh addressed this point in his post above.

     
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  10. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Stephen Colbert and The Late Show agree with you as they've made a 'trailer' for Episode IX (starts at 2:25):


    "Woke Porgs"
     
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  11. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    We truly do live in the Dark Times.

    I encourage everyone to read this. It's an eye-opening account of the state of fandom and how it represents what is going on in the United States.

    https://makingstarwars.net/2018/06/the-filth-the-fandom-give-us-legends-group-takes-credit-for-kelly-marie-tran-leaving-social-media/
     
  12. SamT

    SamT Producer

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    I think their news should not be spread. It's like feeding trolls. They should be ignored completely. The more you talk about them, the more they become legitimate. It's exactly what they want.
     
  13. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    This is another great article on the subject, which traces the original film's message to the politics of its time:

    https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a21205523/star-wars-kelly-marie-tran-harassment-controversy/
     
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  14. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Producer

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    Well if these assholes so desperately want to be "Nerd ISIS" then bring on the predator drones.
     
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  15. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    It's a tough thing though because while I agree that people are giving them what they want, I also think people should speak out against those assholes too.
     
  16. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    Wow, this is a surprising turn of events in fandom. I just happen to read an article on the Hollywood Reporter that Apple News had popped an alert for. It spoke about the backlash from fans and asked what is it they want. It was especially aimed at Rose and Finn. Back before the prequels, the fans just wanted more Star Wars. But they didn’t like Jar Jar or the way Lucas made those films so much about the politics of the republic. Which I thought was great, it showed more depth. And the forces that drove the Skywalker family where it went. Then when The Force Awakens came out,I had not heard of the backlash against Rey and Finn the article brings up. Even though the film had Solo, Leia and the droids, the fans were not happy. The author note that the fans are not coming out to see Solo either.

    The conclusion the author brings up, and he does say he’s one of the fans from the original trilogy, is that the outspoken fans are forgetting what they loved about the films in the first place. And that those films represent their youth. They don’t want to think of Luke as an old man hiding on an island ignoring all that is new. They want him young and looking off into the horizon of two suns.

    I hadn’t realized this was happening and I was in the theater in 1977 and watched Star Wars twice that day. We didn’t leave our seats. It is surprising that the angry fans are lashing out at the new characters, especially female characters and John Boyega’s character.

    It also made me wonder about my favorite, Star Trek. Star Trek seems to have manage to avoid this perhaps because after a 10 year absence from TV to the big screen with several films and then a long run on TV, Star Trek never left such long gaps between films. But I do see some backlash for Discovery. Though I can understand as it is so different. Plus there has been some backlash against the J.J. Abramsverse Star Trek. But not to the same level as the backlash against the new Star Wars films.

    By no means have I given this much thought, this is just an off the cuff post from my gut reactions to the recent news and reading that Hollywood Reporter article. I do have to say the new Star Wars films lack a certain depth or heart compared to Lucas’s original vision. To me, it’s partly J.J. Abrams. He did the same to Star Trek. And that’s the only area that I find lacking in these new Star Wars films. They look great, but somehow feel empty. There’s also that Disney effect, they might be trying to make the films more family friendly too, but also saturating the market. In much the same way Marvel has saturated the theaters with super heroes, I’ve start to tune those out.

    I’m okay with the new Star Wars characters and I do like Rey a lot in the first film. The second film she seemed less defined. It’s tough to recapture that magic from the first films. The new generation likes what they like and it’s not what we liked! :)
     
  17. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    By no means am I an expert but I'd say that since diversity has been part of Star Trek since the beginning, there's less backlash because the really racist people never got into Trek in the first place. Since Star Wars is now making an effort to feature some other types of people, the racists in that fanbase are mad that 'their' movies are being 'taken over by political correctness'.
     
  18. Johnny Angell

    Johnny Angell Played With Dinosaurs Member

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    I know that since you put it in quotes, you agree, I just feel the need to reinforce that it is not "political correctness" to satisfy the need that members of the audience have to see themselves on screen. Wow, that's a tortured sentence, but you get the idea.
     
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  19. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    I finally blocked out sometime and watched the Blu-Ray again with Rian Johnson's audio commentary. It's one of the best audio commentaries by a director I've listened to.

    Recorded after the movie was locked, but shortly before the movie was released, it wasn't at all colored by the polarized audience reaction to the film. He's not defensive or apologetic, because his reaction (and the reaction of a small circle at Lucasfilm) was all he had to go on. It's just a densely packed two-and-a-half hour nuts-and-bolts explanation of making a Star Wars movie. He doesn't hesitate to highlight and credit the contributions of others, and he's pretty matter of fact about what went according to plan and what changed during production and post-production, and why.
     
  20. Message #1600 of 1644 Jun 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
    Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

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    A few pages ago you guys were discussing John Williams score. While I agree that The Last Jedi is a wonderful soundtrack. I also feel its a bit of re-tread of themes from The Force Awakens. Granted there are some new and AWESOME cues. I own it. CD/ HD download AND vinyl :) But IMO, Williams score for The Force Awakens broke new ground and is one for the ages. Kylo Rens theme? Fantastic. Rey's Theme? Perhaps among the best in any Star Wars film. The March of the Resistance? Whoa.

    Don't get me wrong, Love TLJ music but go back and listen to the tracks from TFA.

    Amazing.
     
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