I moved this from the Solo thread since it relates more to The Last Jedi. Travis, How long has the First Order been in existence? Are you implying that the First Order rose after Kylo and the Knights of Ren slaughtered the rest of the Jedi trainees? Now, since Luke was basically the last Jedi in the universe what was it that he could have done to stop the first order from rising? As far as giving up, are you saying that both Obi-wan and Yoda went in to seclusion to die? I always interpreted that as they were waiting for the right time to bring the battle back to the Empire and to destroy the Sith.