Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread(Warning: Spoilers!) (1 Viewer)

[TravisR]

I did have a question this time when I saw it, though. I accept that the rebel flagship is faster then the Empire ships at sublight. But why don't the Empire ships just make a short hyperspace jump in front of the rebel ships? And if it's possible, as Holdo demonstrates, to travel short distances in hyperspace into the middle of a ship and destroy it, then why don't the rebels use droids to pilot bomber craft and destroy giant ships the way Holdo did? I think Johnson opened up more plot holes with that one than he solved.

Ships can't hyperspace micro-jump that small of a distance. Holdo runs her ship through the First Order ships as she's achieving hyperspace.

Finn wants to desert.

Finn wants to get that tracker away from the fleet to protect Rey. Yeah, he's technically deserting but his motive isn't self preservation.

I have seen it six times, including opening night, and not once did any of the audiences cheer or clap wildly at the end. Maybe I've just had bad luck with my audiences, but I never left the theater feeling like the people I saw it with loved it. I think they liked it more than they hated it, but there has never been a big cheer.

The first weekend that I saw it in IMAX & that first Monday morning, the crowd went wild. There was probably a bigger crowd at those shows than at the opening night $40 IMAX double feature that I saw (and that one was crowded).

 

[Jake Lipson]

Also, Finn never really joined the resistance. He intended to flee the First Order after delivering BB-8 to Maz's planet, and just kind of got roped into it because he wanted to help Rey after Kylo Ren kidnapped her. Then, he had to stay there through his coma due to the injuries sustained when fighting Kylo Ren. But he never said, "Hey, I want to join the resistance!" So I don't think deserting it would be a huge deal given the circumstances at the beginning of the film, although obviously his character arc has changed his point of view over the course of The Last Jedi.

 

[Edwin-S]

Not sure why people are saying she was flying like superman. She pulled herself to the ship as if she was on a tether, the tether was the force power.

It's sarcasm. People complaining about that scene are not denying she used the Force. The complaints are about her suddenly using the Force when she has never demonstrated any ability to use the Force in any of the films she has appeared in. There has never been any foreshadowing of her manipulating the Force in any way and all of a sudden she can build force fields around herself and fly through space. Johnson was just pulling this stuff out of his ass without bothering to analyze how it fit in with any of the reams of narrative that occurred before his movie.

It's the same thing with using a hyperspace jump as a weapon. Who needed to build two massive Death Stars and an even bigger Death Planet when the same result of destroying the Rebels/Resistance could have been achieved by outfitting a few garbage scows with automatic pilots, defensive shields and hyperdrives?

His randomness to be "different" without any thought is what has a lot of people upset with his film.

 

[Greg.K]

The complaints are about her suddenly using the Force when she has never demonstrated any ability to use the Force in any of the films she has appeared in. There has never been any foreshadowing of her manipulating the Force in any way and all of a sudden she can build force fields around herself and fly through space. Johnson was just pulling this stuff out of his ass without bothering to analyze how it fit in with any of the reams of narrative that occurred before his movie.

Leia: Luke, don't talk that way. You have a power I don't understand and could never have.
Luke: You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it and... [looks directly at Leia] My sister has it. [waits for the words to sink in] Yes. It's you, Leia.

 

[Edwin-S]

Leia: Luke, don't talk that way. You have a power I don't understand and could never have.
Luke: You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it and... [looks directly at Leia] My sister has it. [waits for the words to sink in] Yes. It's you, Leia.

So what? Talk is cheap. She never demonstrated any manipulative abilities and was never shown developing any ability. I don't give a shit if they have her use the Force, but at least have the decency to show her actually learning to use it and developing the ability. Don't just pull it out of thin air and expect people to swallow it.

 

[Greg.K]

Sounds like griping just for the sake of griping to me. Luke never showed any manipulative abilities before retrieving his lightsaber from the Wampa in Ep V to save himself, either. All he'd shown prior to that was being able to sense when the remote was shooting at him, and when to time the Death Star shot. Leia has shown previous Force sensitivity too, she knew Luke had escaped the Death Star II at the end of ROTJ, and she sensed Han's death in TFA.

Luke explicitly says she has the same power he does, and somehow Rian showing that is "pulling it out of his ass"? IMO, it would be stupid NOT to ever show it. Why even introduce the idea that the Force is strong in Leia if they're never going to use it?

 

[Joel Fontenot]

So what? Talk is cheap. She never demonstrated any manipulative abilities and was never shown developing any ability. I don't give a shit if they have her use the Force, but at least have the decency to show her actually learning to use it and developing the ability. Don't just pull it out of thin air and expect people to swallow it.

Maybe she did, but they just never made that movie during the 30-some-odd-year gap between RotJ and TFA.

I took it and swallowed it with no problem.

 

[Carabimero]

Why even introduce the idea that the Force is strong in Leia if they're never going to use it?

I agree. I think had Fisher lived, you were gonna see a whole heapin' helpin' of her Force powers in episode IX.

 

[TravisR]

Maybe she did, but they just never made that movie during the 30-some-odd-year gap between RotJ and TFA.

That was my feeling too. And seeing Leia actually do more with the Force than just be a telephone for it was pretty cool in my book. Plus, John Williams' use of the Princess Leia theme made that scene really come together.

 

[dpippel]

So what? Talk is cheap. She never demonstrated any manipulative abilities and was never shown developing any ability. I don't give a shit if they have her use the Force, but at least have the decency to show her actually learning to use it and developing the ability. Don't just pull it out of thin air and expect people to swallow it.

Should they have shown Yoda learning the ways of the Force? I swear, I don't believe that little green bastard was so proficient in using it because I never saw him training! How about Kenobi? Qui-Gon? Darth Maul? Windu? All Force cheaters!

 

[Greg.K]

Should they have shown Yoda learning the ways of the Force? I swear, I don't believe that little green bastard was so proficient in using it because I never saw him training! How about Kenobi? Qui-Gon? Darth Maul? Windu? All Force cheaters!

And worse, we never found out who any of their parents were!

 

[Tom-G]

Leia in space is Rian Johnson's "yipee" moment. At least I could write off the yipee scene as Anakin just being a kid. The space Leia scene was cringeworthy. The biggest problem I had with it is that it was one of several "gotcha" moments in TLJ. It wasn't even necessary to show Leia using the force because we learned in TFA that she decided not to choose the path of learning the force. Not what I expected to see from Leia after the events of Return of the Jedi, but okay, I was okay with that. We could have had another moment where she uses the force as she did in ESB and I would have been fine with that.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Leia in space is Rian Johnson's "yipee" moment. At least I could write off the yipee scene as Anakin just being a kid. The space Leia scene was cringeworthy. The biggest problem I had with it is that it was one of several "gotcha" moments in TLJ. It wasn't even necessary to show Leia using the force because we learned from TFA that she decided not to choose the path of learning the force. We could have had another moment where she uses the force as she did in ESB and I would have been fine with that.

Hell, I thought the space Leia scene was pretty cool and I bet most people did except for some hardcore Star Wars fans.

 

[Tino]

I dunno. I cheered during that scene as did most of my opening night audience. I loved it.

 

[dpippel]

It wasn't even necessary to show Leia using the force because we learned in TFA that she decided not to choose the path of learning the force.

How did we learn this in TFA? Because she wasn't shown using the Force?

 

[Tom-G]

How did we learn this in TFA? Because she wasn't shown using the Force?

The fact that she's General Leia, not Jedi Master Leia. The fact that Han Solo said to her "I went back to doing the only thing I was ever good at" and Leia responded by saying "we both did." Doesn't get any clearer than that.

We know Leia can use the force. The scene showing this was contrived and unnecessary. Just another way to surprise the audience since we knew that Carrie Fisher had passed and were curious as to how Leia's death would be handled in TLJ.

 

[dpippel]

The fact that she's General Leia, not Jedi Master Leia. The fact that Han Solo said to her "I went back to doing the only thing I was ever good at" and Leia responded by saying "we both did." Doesn't get any clearer than that.

We know Leia can use the force. The scene showing this was contrived and unnecessary. Just another way to surprise the audience since we knew that Carrie Fisher had passed and were curious as to how Leia's death would be handled in TLJ.

Nothing was made clear about Leia's abilities or lack thereof in TFA. You're making assumptions based on nothing here. There's a LOT of road between simply using the Force and being a Jedi Master.

Leia is the sister of arguably the most powerful Jedi Master ever, Luke Skywalker. To say with certainty that she hadn't developed her Force ability at all in 30 years just because her title was "General" is really a stretch.

 

[TravisR]

We know Leia can use the force. The scene showing this was contrived and unnecessary. Just another way to surprise the audience since we knew that Carrie Fisher had passed and were curious as to how Leia's death would be handled in TLJ.

Nearly all of the Resistance fleet storyline hinged on Leia being incapacitated and recovering so that was all definitely in the movie prior to Fisher's death. They didn't re-edit an hour of the movie after her death in an effort to surprise people.

I dunno. I cheered during that scene as did most of my opening night audience. I loved it.

Live I've said, it was cool to see Leia use her Force powers. However, it was ultimately sad for me since Carrie Fisher is actually dead. The emotion from that does enhance the scene though.

 

[Tom-G]

Nothing was made clear about Leia's abilities or lack thereof in TFA. You're making assumptions based on nothing here. There's a LOT of gray between simply using the Force and being a Jedi Master.

Leia is the sister of arguably the most powerful Jedi Master ever, Luke Skywalker. To say with certainty that she hadn't developed her Force ability at all in 30 years just because her title was "General" is really a stretch.

And saying that she developed her abilities isn't a stretch? You're making assumptions based on nothing.

 

[TravisR]

And saying that she developed her abilities isn't a stretch? You're making assumptions based on nothing.

Based on what was shown in The Last Jedi, she definitely has developed her Force abilities.