Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) (1 Viewer)

[Adam Lenhardt]

A good episode, though I was wondering

Spoiler

whether Sol was just seeing how much rope he could give Mae or whether he was fooled for any time at all.

It seemed like the latter, but I'm definitely hoping it was the former. There's just no way that a Jedi Master wouldn't be able to sense that his longtime padawan is actually his longtime padawan.

Really digging this show. It seems like Vernestra is hiding something, and the scars on Qimir's back look suspiciously like they could have come from her light whip.

Agreed. She's been the one treating the whole situation like damage control, and purposefully obfuscating with both the Senate and the Jedi Council. Regardless of her relationship (or lack thereof) with Qimir, I'm thinking she's at the heart of whatever shit went down the night of the fire.

Interview with Leslye Headland regarding episode 6. Warning, may be spoilers.

Leslye Headland Says It's "So Clear" What's Going On Between Osha and Qimir in 'The Acolyte'

The Acolyte's creator Leslye Headland unpacks Episode 6, dishes on the new enemies-to-lovers ship Osha and Qimir, and teases whats to come.

collider.com

I appreciate that interview confirming that the planet Qimir takes Osha to isn't supposed to be the same one that Luke Skywalker self-exiled to for the sequel trilogy. I didn't think it was, because the little creatures were different, but it definitely looked very similar.

I liked the exchanges between Qimir and Osha, and overall I enjoyed the episode, despite the fact that nothing really happened.

I appreciated how different Qimir's approach was to Osha versus Mae. With Mae it was all about deception, to the point where she didn't even know Qimir was her master. With Osha, he's using the truth (at least as he sees it) to seduce her to his side. The Jedi are so wary of negative emotion that Qimir recognized that Osha had never really processed her sister's betrayal or her unceremonious exit from the Jedi, and he's exploiting both in his effort to bring her around.

I was interested in his reference to the "Power of Two". It could be the Sith rule of two, or it could be something to do with Mae and Osha's status as twins.

 

[Museum Pieces]

Sol was fooled or he never would have left Osha. And I just can buy it. The show stretches credulity.

My biggest problem is that I just don't feel anything for the twins, or believe they have any kind of authentic relationship. I don't think about the show during the week and speculate. It's watchable but doesn't have much depth. The show runner promised us years ago a show about the Sith. Instead we got a show about twins. Qimir is the most interesting character in this series by far, and I believe the story should always be about the most interesting character. Too bad this one wasn't until almost too late. I did like the scene with Osha and Qimir, even though not much really happened in the episode. It is telling that my biggest emotional response to the show was when Mae wiped the little droid's memory.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I felt like I needed to revisit re-doing my taxes in this week's episode, it's was just so "eh" in execution.

 

[Sam Favate]

FWIW, Acolyte creator Headland said the locations are not the same, but were intended to give off the same vibe of isolation.

I think that’s a failure. Don’t make it look virtually identical if you’re going to have it be a different place. There are many ways to show isolation.

 

[NeilO]

Good episode tonight. We get the flashback from the Jedi POV plus a little more. And it is quite the tragedy - everyone involved is to blame.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Good episode tonight. We get the flashback from the Jedi POV plus a little more. And it is quite the tragedy - everyone involved is to blame.

Yes, I really appreciated the Rashomon-esque parallels between this episode and episode three, which were both directed by Kogonada and probably shot simultaneously.

It was a bold choice to make the Jedi we like the best and have spent the most time with be the one who was most culpable for what went down. Yes, Mae started the fire. But she was a child who made a childish mistake that got out of hand. The Jedi were the adults, and they should have done better. I really appreciated Carrie-Anne Moss's performance this week. She was the one person in all of this, aside from Osha's mother, who thought of the children first.

 

[Sam Favate]

The second flashback episode was good, better than the first. But so far I haven’t seen much that makes the Sith look more sympathetic, and I thought that was the point of this show.

 

[Citizen87645]

With one episode remaining, I have no idea where this series is headed.

 

[Museum Pieces]

I thought episode 7 was the strongest yet. Just shows what happens when you tell a story with a linear narrative. I wish they'd started the story here. I would have cared about the characters a lot more from the beginning. Who cares about creating some wisp of a mystery that is forgotten in a blink anyway. Sometimes I think writers shoot themselves in the foot believing they have to start with a mystery that requires jumping around in time that just ends up diluting the interest and suspense. I cared more for Osha and even Mae in this episode than any of the others because the drama made sense for a change. All that said, with one episode to go, I'm not really sure what this series is about. I have no idea what the central conflict to be resolved is. I'm not sure who the heroes are supposed to be, who I'm supposed to be pulling for, or what kind of climax we're going to get--if any. It's hard to imagine at this point episode eight alone could raise this series up from being unremarkable for me at best.

I don't care if they're male, female, gay, straight, bi, trans, deaf, blind, black, brown, white or yellow, Disney needs to hire better writers and show runners. But what's new?

Edit: On reflection it occurs to me that Master Sol often doesn't use his light saber when it seems warranted, then in this episode he pulls it out when it seems unwise to do so, and turns out it was unwise. So they really don't set Sol up to be the kind of Jedi that would do this sort of thing. But yeah it does explain a lot. It just made no sense given his character to date, why he did it. But I could say that about several things any number of those characters do.

 

[Chris Will]

I thought episode 7 was the strongest yet. Just shows what happens when you tell a story with a linear narrative. I wish they'd started the story here. I would have cared about the characters a lot more from the beginning. Who cares about creating some wisp of a mystery that is forgotten in a blink anyway. Sometimes I think writers shoot themselves in the foot believing they have to start with a mystery that requires jumping around in time that just ends up diluting the interest and suspense. I cared more for Osha and even Mae in this episode than any of the others because the drama made sense for a change. All that said, with one episode to go, I'm not really sure what this series is about. I have no idea what the central conflict to be resolved is. I'm not sure who the heroes are supposed to be, who I'm supposed to be pulling for, or what kind of climax we're going to get--if any. It's hard to imagine at this point episode eight alone could raise this series up from being unremarkable for me at best.

I completely agree. I'm so tired of almost every streaming show having to have some kind of mystery that is slowly revealed over 8 episodes. It is starting to become really boring that this point.

JJ Abrams must somehow sneak into every streaming service's writing room and just whisper "mysteries" into everyone's ears all the time.

Overall, I'm just very meh on this show. I'm sticking it out to the end only because we watch it as a family every Tuesday night, otherwise I would have bailed after episode 2 or 3. The story just hasn't been that compelling to me. The Sith is the most interesting aspect and the one we've spent the least time exploring. For me, the twins are the least interesting part of the show but, that's what it is all about I guess. Oh well.

 

[Citizen87645]

I thought it was interesting to start and even midway, but it hasn't really had the payoff for me. I don't really understand the Sol character either, why he felt so compelled and even impulsive to intervene the way he did. Him saying it and emoting it doesn't really explain it. The Padawan being bored and petulant and whining about wanting to go home just made the whole thing worse. There's been sort of this trend showing Padawans as being annoying middle schoolers and I don't know why that is. Not everyone has to be a variation of Anakin.

I don't think this has made the Sith more sympathetic as much as made the Jedi less so and actually kind of douchey. But I guess that is also the hubris that led to their downfall?

 

[Greg.K]

I like the show, but I do agree that the mystery angle regarding what happened to coven wasn't necessary at all, it would have worked fine shown linearly. There is still plenty left to wonder about with Qimir and how he fits into things.

 

[Museum Pieces]

There's been sort of this trend showing Padawans as being annoying middle schoolers and I don't know why that is.

To me it's even worse than that. For instance, Sabine lied to her master Ahsoka, to her face, twice, then disregarded what she promised to do in a way that put the entire universe into peril, and Sabine is never even reprimanded; in fact, it is never mentioned at all. I don't know if the Wookie was a master 16 years earlier, but the Jedi just seem to think it's like being in the ROTC and don't take it seriously at all. If the Jedi protected the Republic for a thousand years, it's hard to imagine a mere 100 years earlier they would be this nonchalant about their respect for the Order.

At a fan convention somewhere Lucas talked to Ahmed Best who played Jar Jar and basically said Disney didn't understand the Force or the Jedi, at least that's what I took from listening to Mr. Best when he paraphrased it after the fact. A lot of people say Star Wars fans hate Star Wars and are toxic, but the way I see it Star Wars fans love the franchise with all their hearts. The truth is a lot of us are heartbroken to see what has become of it being run by a corporation that doesn't understand its core principles or the source material. I remember Kennedy saying, "There is no source material" to explain why they gave Abrams a free hand in ep. 7.

 

[Citizen87645]

I feel like what you're describing started happening well before Disney took over, under Lucas's watch. I didn't recognize much of the Star Wars I loved as a kid in the prequel trilogy, so to me the hit and miss stuff with Disney is just a natural outcome of a path Lucas set the franchise on a long time ago. If he feels like they don't understand it, then he is somewhat to blame for the crappy explanation.

 

[TravisR]

I feel like what you're describing started happening well before Disney took over, under Lucas's watch. I didn't recognize much of the Star Wars I loved as a kid in the prequel trilogy, so to me the hit and miss stuff with Disney is just a natural outcome of a path Lucas set the franchise on a long time ago. If he feels like they don't understand it, then he is somewhat to blame for the crappy explanation.

You hit on one of my favorite parts of the psycho whiner fans. They spent decades crying about the prequels but they now say that the prequels are great. Not because they've made an honest reevaluation of the movies after all these years but only because it's another way to slam the work that Disney does.

 

[AlexF]

Edit: On reflection it occurs to me that Master Sol often doesn't use his light saber when it seems warranted, then in this episode he pulls it out when it seems unwise to do so, and turns out it was unwise. So they really don't set Sol up to be the kind of Jedi that would do this sort of thing. But yeah it does explain a lot. It just made no sense given his character to date, why he did it.

Had you ever considered that this event was the one that made him act like he acts in the "current" time frame? It's a cause and effect thing?

They're showing us how he is now (conflicted, hesitant to use his light saber, etc). Then then showed us why.

I'm starting to feel that you prefer things spelled out for you in a perfectly linear sense based on some of your other comments about the narrative order of other media.

 

[Greg.K]

Had you ever considered that this event was the one that made him act like he acts in the "current" time frame? It's a cause and effect thing?

They're showing us how he is now (conflicted, hesitant to use his light saber, etc). Then then showed us why.

Agreed

 

[Museum Pieces]

Had you ever considered that this event was the one that made him act like he acts in the "current" time frame? It's a cause and effect thing?

They're showing us how he is now (conflicted, hesitant to use his light saber, etc). Then then showed us why.

I'm starting to feel that you prefer things spelled out for you in a perfectly linear sense based on some of your other comments about the narrative order of other media.

Fair point. For me it would have been much more powerful if this had been something from the past he was fighting the whole series that the audience knew about from ep 1. It would have made me understand him and like him from the beginning, and invest more emotionally into his arc. As it is, it's an intellectual exercise in solving a puzzle, not an emotional experience. I prefer emotional arcs over to me what are pointless puzzles that don't draw me in. One is character development, the other is character revelation through the writers moving pieces of the puzzle around. I prefer character development. It creates emotional interest and suspense. Everything is a tradeoff. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Museum Pieces]

I feel like what you're describing started happening well before Disney took over, under Lucas's watch. I didn't recognize much of the Star Wars I loved as a kid in the prequel trilogy, so to me the hit and miss stuff with Disney is just a natural outcome of a path Lucas set the franchise on a long time ago. If he feels like they don't understand it, then he is somewhat to blame for the crappy explanation.

This is an inaccurate generalization with respect to the points I was trying to make. The story of the prequel trilogy is solid: the fall of Anakin and the rise of Palpatine tells a complete story. What's bad about the prequels isn't the story--it's the awful dialogue and bad directing of actors. With Disney, Lucas is talking specifically about the treatment of Jedi and the use (and overuse) of the Force (if the Force could heal, Anakin would have used it to heal Padme). Not to mention way too many light saber fights (with Lucas it was barely one per 90 minutes of screen time, on average; with Disney it's one every 18 minutes, not including The Acolyte). The prequels may not be great, but they treat the Force and the Jedi in a consistent way. They don't have way too many light saber fights with little or no consequence that end up meaning nothing. Every Light saber fight under Lucas had serious consequence (Ben dies, Luke loses a hand, Vader loses a hand, Qui-Gon dies, Anakin loses limbs, Dooku dies, Anakin loses legs). Until The Acolyte, all the light saber fights under Disney had little to zero consequence. People just fight and then walk away from each other. Even after saying, "I will do what I must."

Had you ever considered that this event was the one that made him act like he acts in the "current" time frame? It's a cause and effect thing?

They're showing us how he is now (conflicted, hesitant to use his light saber, etc). Then then showed us why.

I'm starting to feel that you prefer things spelled out for you in a perfectly linear sense based on some of your other comments about the narrative order of other media.

I'm not the only one. There's a series of videos floating around where Hayden Christensen, Ewan McGregor and Liam Nesson make fun of how bad the Acolyte is. You can hear them often say, "Why isn't he using his light saber?" "Or, "Use your light saber!" It's not just referencing Master Sol's reluctance, but many of the other characters. Apparently because they wanted to make it a martial arts show. "A Jedi never draws their light saber unless they're going to use it" was a particularly confusing line to them and to me. I'll take my share of confusion as a viewer but I think the writing and structure has to take its share as well. That is the danger when you break your story in sections and tell it out of order. Especially in a galaxy that never did flashbacks until Disney. Because it essentially stops the story. It often makes the writing and characters appear dumb because of what's gone before that we haven't seen yet.

I'd be mortified if I ran a Star Wars show and Hayden Christensen, Ewan McGregor and Liam Nesson made fun of it every week. Many fans (me being one of them) think their show is better than the Acolyte. A big part of that comes from the Acolyte's fractured structure. By the time we get to episode 7 and people go, "See you shouldn't criticize until you see all of it," it's too late. The damage is done. The chance for building emotion week after week with character development is gone because there is only character revelation, not development. The flashback structure allows the writers to leave everything in the middle of the story (i.e. development) out. It's a technique lesser writers use; it gets them off the hook for actually developing characters. It's much easier to create the impression of character development (with no real emotional staying power) by contriving it through simple juxtaposition rather than detailed change over time. That kind of development, which generates not just curiosity but interest and suspense, takes talent.

All these things I mention are not something that ever happened with Lucas, so the idea that the weakening of Star Wars happened before Disney in the fundamental ways that I brought up is inaccurate.

 

[TravisR]

I'm not the only one. There's a series of videos floating around where Hayden Christensen, Ewan McGregor and Liam Nesson make fun of how bad the Acolyte is. You can hear them often say, "Why isn't he using his light saber?" "Or, "Use your light saber!" It's not just referencing Master Sol's reluctance, but many of the other characters. Apparently because they wanted to make it a martial arts show. "A Jedi never draws their light saber unless they're going to use it" was a particularly confusing line to them and to me. I'll take my share of confusion as a viewer but I think the writing and structure has to take its share as well. That is the danger when you break your story in sections and tell it out of order. Especially in a galaxy that never did flashbacks until Disney. Because it essentially stops the story. It often makes the writing and characters appear dumb because of what's gone before that we haven't seen yet.

I'd be mortified if I ran a Star Wars show and Hayden Christensen, Ewan McGregor and Liam Nesson made fun of it every week. Many fans (me being one of them) think their show is better than the Acolyte. A big part of that comes from the Acolyte's fractured structure. By the time we get to episode 7 and people go, "See you shouldn't criticize until you see all of it," it's too late. The damage is done. The chance for building emotion week after week with character development is gone because there is only character revelation, not development. The flashback structure allows the writers to leave everything in the middle of the story (i.e. development) out. It's a technique lesser writers use; it gets them off the hook for actually developing characters. It's much easier to create the impression of character development (with no real emotional staying power) by contriving it through simple juxtaposition rather than detailed change over time. That kind of development, which generates not just curiosity but interest and suspense, takes talent.

All these things I mention are not something that ever happened with Lucas, so the idea that the weakening of Star Wars happened before Disney in the fundamental ways that I brought up is inaccurate.

I can't believe I have to say this but that's not really Christensen, McGregor and Neeson. It's a Tic Tok from another in a string of grifters who have figured out that exploiting SW fans' endless hatred is a good way to make money and get internet famous.