Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) (1 Viewer)

[Greg.K]

As of today, the only D+ SW show with fewer views than The Acolyte is Andor, and it got a $250-million-dollar season two order. But that was back before the streaming bubble popped.

IMO Andor, along with The Mandalorian, are the best SW live-action TV shows ever made, and they sit at opposite ends of the spectrum of least and most viewed.

IMO - Andor's a great show, but it's the least "Star Wars"-y of the shows. I definitely prefer more space wizards in my space wizard fantasies.

The Acolyte isn't perfect but I enjoyed it, and I like what it adds to Star Wars lore. I'm more interested in the potential of a season 2 of The Acolyte, to fill in some of the backstory of the Sith & Jedi, than a season 2 of Andor. So I hope it happens.

 

[Museum Pieces]

IMO - Andor's a great show, but it's the least "Star Wars"-y of the shows. I definitely prefer more space wizards in my space wizard fantasies.

The Acolyte isn't perfect but I enjoyed it, and I like what it adds to Star Wars lore. I'm more interested in the potential of a season 2 of The Acolyte, to fill in some of the backstory of the Sith & Jedi, than a season 2 of Andor. So I hope it happens.

I liked Andor despite its slow start because it made the Empire not only scary but truly terrifying. It had never been treated that way before. It was just kind of a bad thing but not really bone chilling systemically oppressive in such detail. Andor achieved that oppression so powerfully that now it makes the Empire scarier in all the SW shows I watch. For me that's a real achievement, one I appreciate.

It will be interesting to see if The Acolyte gets renewed. It was planned for three seasons. We'll see.

 

[Sam Favate]

I’d say its chances of renewal are pretty good. It’s said to be the second highest-rated Star Wars show after Obi-Wan. (Of course, Obi-Wan isn’t currently scheduled for a second season, so who knows?)

(BTW I think there will be more Obi-Wan, whether as a movie or a new season. McGregor is game and the ratings were too good to ignore.)

 

[Museum Pieces]

I’d say its chances of renewal are pretty good. It’s said to be the second highest-rated Star Wars show after Obi-Wan. (Of course, Obi-Wan isn’t currently scheduled for a second season, so who knows?)

(BTW I think there will be more Obi-Wan, whether as a movie or a new season. McGregor is game and the ratings were too good to ignore.)

I hope Disney brings back Obi-Wan but understands that doesn't mean they have to bring back Anakin/Vader too. That's the trap. There are plenty of adventures for Obi Wan to have between episodes III and IV that don't need Vader in them. The question for me is does Disney believe they can write something for Obi-Wan engaging enough to get the views without Vader in it? I would love to see McGregor in an Obi-Wan series with a new really scary menace to face.

 

[TravisR]

I hope Disney brings back Obi-Wan but understands that doesn't mean they have to bring back Anakin/Vader too. That's the trap. There are plenty of adventures for Obi Wan to have between episodes III and IV that don't need Vader in them. The question for me is does Disney believe they can write something for Obi-Wan engaging enough to get the views without Vader in it? I would love to see McGregor in an Obi-Wan series with a new really scary menace to face.

I wholeheartedly agree that Darth Vader isn't needed for an Obi-Wan story but I think the majority of fans would be disappointed if he doesn't show up in another potential Obi-Wan show. However, after covering all of the points from the dialogue in the Obi-Wan and Vader duel in the first movie, it is nearly impossible to shoehorn in another confrontation between the two again.

 

[Greg.K]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind another Obi-Wan season, but please don't bring back Vader again. The first season was too much of a stretch as it is.

 

[Sam Favate]

Interesting comments from Headland on that cameo.

Spoiler

Leslye Headland Reveals All on Darth Plagueis Cameo in 'The Acolyte' - Star Wars News Net

Leslye Headland talks about the big Darth Plagueis cameo in the final episode of The Acolyte that has Star Wars fans buzzing.

www.starwarsnewsnet.com

 

[NeilO]

I only saw the headline, but apparently Headland has said there is no word at this time one way or another about a season 2.

 

[NeilO]

Headland explains a lot and tells about her influences and more.

Leslye Headland Turns Star Wars to Its Dark Side

The Acolyte creator renders a “positive corruption arc” and wrestles with her past in a galaxy far, far away.

www.vulture.com

 

[Citizen87645]

Not entirely wrong...

 

[benbess]

Overall, my daughter and I did not care for this show.

Spoiler

Portraying the Jedi as so flawed, corrupt, and so often wrong was depressing and just didn't even seem like Star Wars. Ridiculous and unexplained things happened throughout the show. The actors were really good, but the writing was bad from our pov. We don't think we'll ever watch The Acolyte again.

 

[TravisR]

Spoiler

Portraying the Jedi as so flawed, corrupt, and so often wrong was depressing and just didn't even seem like Star Wars.

I don't want to spoil the prequels for you but the Jedi really mess up in those movies.

 

[Citizen87645]

I liked the premise of the Jedi script being flipped, or rather delving more into the flaws that led to their downfall. But I haven't decided yet whether it's Acolyte's execution of the premise, or the premise itself, being the problem (or some combo). I can certainly see that an intriguing idea on paper may not actually be that great an idea in reality, no matter how well executed.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I thought it was great. I was much more engaged seeing a story that took place in an era that hadn’t really been covered yet, seeing a side of the Jedi organization not often portrayed. I’m a bit over the kind of storytelling that Lucasfilm has been employing on some of their other projects like Rogue One and Solo, where a throwaway line from one of the original films becomes the basis for hours of new content at a level of detail that’s beyond what I ever was interested in.

I think when it comes down to fandom, you’ve got a section that views the Obi-Wan speech about the Jedi in Episode IV as the gospel, and then you’ve got another group of fandom (and Lucas himself) who see that as an older man looking back with rose colored glasses while trying to protect a young man from the enormity of a tragic truth.

The prequels showed the Jedi as being both complicit in and victims of organizational rot, a group so sure of the righteousness of their position that they blindly followed their path towards extinction. This is a key component to the storytelling, but one that is frequently ignored in discourse about the franchise. Lucas is trying to tell us something with this portrayal: he is showing us that we cannot allow our institutions to become frozen in amber (or carbonite, if you prefer), that we cannot blindly go on doing a thing simply because we have always done a thing, that we cannot expect something to always be there simply because it always has been before. We cannot take our institutions for granted and each generation must be active not only in participating in upholding them but also actively questioning if changing times should mean that the institutions should grow and change with them.

Because of the institutional stagnation of the Jedi, and the arrogance and righteousness that comes with that, a Jedi like Sol was so convinced that his path was the right one that he felt entitled to visit a world over which the Republic had no jurisdiction, and felt absolutely justified in taking one of that world’s children with him, and that violence and murder and deception were all excusable because of a premise that is so flawed that to say it outloud is to prove how laughable it is: that all Force-sensitive children belong first and foremost to the Jedi order.

And in the end, there’s no accountability. The Jedi cover up Sol’s actions with more lies, instead of reflecting on how the institution’s viewpoints created an environment where Sol felt that his actions were not only righteous but necessary, which furthers the institutional rot.

That’s some real horrific shit if you think about it.

And that to me is more interesting than a lot of the other stories Lucasfilm has been telling lately.

 

[Citizen87645]

I think I enjoyed your analysis more than watching the show.

 

[Sam Favate]

The prequels showed the Jedi as being both complicit in and victims of organizational rot, a group so sure of the righteousness of their position that they blindly followed their path towards extinction.

Here’s a scene I always wanted to see, maybe as an extension of the conversation between Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan where Obi-Wan says “ if you’d just follow the rules, you’d be in the council.” Qui-Gon should say “Listen, my young friend, in the history of many worlds, societies that deny their people basic functions of life - like loving whom you want - and who are unwilling to face up to inconvenient truths - like everyone you think is on your side isn’t - will fail. The Jedi do not have to fail, Obi -Wan, but by closing our eyes to the realities we face and by holding to ancient dogma, we’re heading that way. They say the boy is too old to be trained? Why? What’s the alternative? Allow this child with very significant Force abilities to roam the Galaxy where his power can be corrupted or influenced by those who don’t have society’s best interests in mind? Why not let the boy’s mother come with him and give him the emotional support he needs? These are the failings I have been trying to get the council to understand for a generation now, but even the best people on the council insist on holding on to the ancient beliefs. Any belief system that does not evolve will die. I believe the Jedi can have great days ahead of them if they change. I believe in evolution, Obi-Wan. And I believe in critical thinking, facing the world as it is now. And I believe in love.”

 

[Josh Steinberg]

George Lucas allows a lot of the subtext to remain implicit rather than explicit in his writing, but I 100% think that is a large part of the message that he was trying to impart.

I would have enjoyed a scene like that.

That said, I also enjoy that film just the way it is, and like that it has the kind of layers that allow the viewer to go back find that meaning within it.

That the Jedi librarian in Episode II snootily tells Obi-Wan that if what he’s looking for can’t be found in her library, it doesn’t exist, that should tell viewers everything they need to know about hubris and the state of the Jedi.

 

[Josh Dial]

I've been waiting a while to write my review because it's quite negative, and I didn't want to dampen the thread's mood.

I think The Acolyte is a total failure, and the worst thing to bear the Star Wars banner. This is "Secret Invasion" level bad for me.

There are exactly five shining lights in the series, so I'll start there.

First, Dafne Keen is just great. She's always great. She should be the lead here. She's one of the only people (Manny Jacinto, Jodie Turner-Smith, and Carrie-Anne Moss are the others) who actually worked with their scene partners and added emotional depth to their delivery.

Second, Manny Jacinto is a terrific surprise. I really liked him in The Good Place, and having him playing against type here was awesome. Yeah, we all saw it coming from a parsec away, but it doesn't matter. He's the most dangerous Force user since Vader.

Third, Carrie-Anne Moss. She's wasted here, plain and simple. Verging on stunt casting. They cast her just to kill her in the first five minutes. Infuriating actually.

Fourth, Jodie Turner-Smith just oozes charisma and mystery. She's the only thing watchable on the Force witches side.

Fifth, the combat is pretty incredible. Some of the best in the franchise. Kudos to the stunt team.

Now on to the bad: everything else.

I'm going to be harsh here, but Amandla Stenberg is not a good actor. She delivers every line like it's a table read and she's seeing the script for the first time. There is no emotional heft to anything. She never reacts to her scene partners' lines or delivery: rather, she simply waits for them to finish and then says her next line. Osha and Mae are not different, and not in a clever "oh they are portrayed the same because they are the same!" way. We know Stenberg was going for different portrayals, and it was a total miss. She had more chemistry with her droid than any living actor.

But even worse were the two girls who played young Osha and Mae. I'm not going to spend much time criticizing young actors because that's cruel and it happened with Jake Lloyd. Suffice to say the girls weren't up to the task, and I place all the blame on the director and casting director(s).

Lee Jung-jae was also bad here. Almost terrible. If I didn't know he won an Emmy I wouldn't believe it. I don't know what went wrong here. Maybe the dialogue is to blame. But everything seemed awkward--again like it was the first time he was reading the lines.

Everyone else was basically unwatchable. Some of the worst supporting/extras this side of a bad TNG episode.

The dialogue was tepid at best, and embarrassing at worst. Amateur level. At one point in an early episode we literally get a "I can explain" trope where the protagonist is in an awkward position. You could almost here the record scratch ("I bet you're wondering how I got here...").

The plot was largely boring aside from the fights (which aren't plot). But the real sin is the out-of-order storytelling. To be clear: this isn't "Rashomon" style. As an aside I think we need a moratorium on Rashomon stories. Anyway, this isn't that. We don't get vastly different versions of the same events, with the truth being somewhere in between. No, this is the same events told from different points of view, but with the exact same events unfolding in the exact same way. And it's not an Obi-Wan "from a certain point of view" thing. Many times it was literally just from a different angle. It's not clever.

But oh the show thinks it's clever for jumbling up the story. Except it doesn't matter. There is no world shattering reveal. There is no reason to tell the story this way. It comes off as bunch of amateur storytellers thinking, "oh this is how real writers tell a story".

Kogonada is the only good director in the bunch. But he's wasted here. Go watch the truly excellent After Yang instead (seriously, it's a near masterpiece).

Music was totally forgettable. Nothing coming even close to the brilliance of The Mandalorian. The composer won a freaking Pulitzer for music. How is the score so...so...

And finally we have the overall look. It's terrible. The entire lighting team should be banned from ever lighting a scene again. Maybe the Volume can share some of the blame, but without hyperbole this is one of the worst lit shows I've ever seen. I'm not saying it's too dark. Rather, everyone is bombarded with different and wrong levels of key light. It never looks natural. Everyone looks like they are in a Costco. Often characters in the same frame will have different (but equally wrong) levels of light on their faces. Even when they are shooting outside on location the show somehow gets the lighting wrong. This isn't even amateur level: it's "flunked out of film school" level.

I basically hated this.

2/10 (one point for Keen, one point for Manny).

 

[Sam Favate]

Maybe the Volume can share some of the blame,

The show runner proudly said they didn’t use the Volume, and then incorrectly stated that other shows including Andor did. (Andor did not.)

You make very valid points in your review.

 

[benbess]

Those are interesting arguments @Josh Steinberg, and very well stated. You have me halfway convinced. For me and my daughter, however, there's a difference between the serious flawed Jedi of the prequels, whose weaknesses are exploited, and the often almost rotten-to-the-core Jedi of this show. As sometimes happens, we'll agree to disagree.

My favorite Star Wars live-action show so far, which is also my daughter's favorite, is Andor.