Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999) (1 Viewer)

[Joseph Bolus]

It says a lot that there's a perceived need for so much extra material to "help" and "justify" prequel story elements. Good movies don't need that.

Or it could be an indication of just how dense and rich the Star Wars Universe actually is."The Clone Wars" take place in the three year gap between Episode II and Episode III, is comprised of over 60 hours of material, and is still perceived as being incomplete by many fans.

 

[RobertR]

Or it could be an indication of just how dense and rich the Star Wars Universe actually is."The Clone Wars" take place in the three year gap between Episode II and Episode III, is comprised of over 60 hours of material, and is still perceived as being incomplete by many fans.

A stronger case for that could be made if you had just said "expanding upon plot points". However, you also said "and better justifying some of the story elements". It makes sense to expand upon denseness and richness, but not to need to justify it.

 

[SamT]

Funny this Star Wars Rebels trailer looks more kid friendly than Clone Wars! Clone Wars look like a film compared to it!

 

[TravisR]

^ I believe they've said that they want Rebels to have the sense of fun that was present in the OT and not often seen in The Clone Wars. I thought The Clone Wars was excellent overall so I have lots of faith in what the same people are going to do with an OT-era setting.

 

[Simon Massey]

It says a lot that there's a perceived need for so much extra material to "help" and "justify" prequel story elements. Good movies don't need that.

Personally don't think the Clone Wars information is "needed" or "justified" in terms of explaining the plot or story - sure it adds details but I felt all you needed to know was in the films.

What the Clone Wars series does do for me is expand on the characters and add a richness to the film characters while also adding some other interesting characters into the mix. The series to me just adds great details that while not strictly necessary, are a lot of fun.

 

[joshEH]

Yup -- I've personally never needed any additional expanation for Sifo-Dyas or Force-ghosts. The movies already explained those adequately enough to my satisfaction. But the fact that the TV series is exploring them further is no different than exploring any of the other movie characters further, as well.

The storyline-threads are already right there and waiting, so might as well use them while you have the chance.

 

[TravisR]

I love when things remain a little mysterious but Sifo-Dyas was a little too murky for my tastes. They give you enough info to come up with a good idea of what he was doing but I guess I wanted some confirmation or more detail. That being said, I don't think anyone walked out of Attack Of The Clones saying "I would have loved it but they didn't explain Sifo-Dyas so I hated it."

 

[SamT]

Yup -- I've personally never needed any additional expanation for Sifo-Dyas or Force-ghosts. The movies already explained those adequately enough to my satisfaction.

What is the story of Sifo-Dyas? Never got it. It's not explained in the movies.

 

[joshEH]

Mostly that he was a member of the Jedi Council between TPM and AOTC who took it upon himself to order up the clone army with the Kaminoans, and was killed not long after the events of the first prequel.

It wasn't really a huge bit of backstory or anything, but it set the stage for Palpatine's later seizure of the army (the unspoken implication being that Sifo-Dyas was murdered by either Sidious or Dooku). In both trilogies, Lucas gives us tiny, tantalizing references to previous events (i.e., the "bounty hunter on Ord Mantell"), but leaves the rest to our imaginations to fill in -- this is another one of those, more or less.

 

[SamT]

Why would Sifo-Dyas agree to do that? How come he is dead for 10 years and they are still making clones.

 

[TravisR]

Why would Sifo-Dyas agree to do that? How come he is dead for 10 years and they are still making clones.

Based on the conversation between Obi-Wan and Lama Su (the cloner boss), the Kaminoans didn't know that Sifo-Dyas was dead so the plan must have been that they receive their payment and then spend the decade growing and training the clones until the Jedi or the Republic pick them up.

 

[SamT]

I don't buy it. Very weak story element.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I always thought Sifo-Dyas was in fact Count Dooku and when he went over to the dark side the Jedi considered him dead, in much the same way Obi-Wan said Anakin Skywalker was dead when he went over to the dark side.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

I assumed Sifo-Dyas was a stooge and after placing the clone order was killed to keep it all quiet. Given Yoda knew Count Dooku and Obi-wan mentioned Sifo-Dyas and Yoda seemed unknowledgeable about him other than he was killed, I don't see them one and the same person. What is unclear to me is where Count Dooku fits in all this. From the movies I assumed he was on the dark side for years and it was a little confusing as to whether he took Darth Maul's place as apprentice or was simply a real Count with his own high level influence and followers and just helped Sideous.

 

[TravisR]

What is unclear to me is where Count Dooku fits in all this. From the movies I assumed he was on the dark side for years and it was a little confusing as to whether he took Darth Maul's place as apprentice or was simply a real Count with his own high level influence and followers and just helped Sideous.

Sidious refers to Dooku as "Lord Tyranus" so he's a Sith apprentice in Attack Of The Clones. I can't remember if it's specified in AOTC but Qui-Gon's death was the final straw for Dooku being a Jedi. So shortly after The Phantom Menace, Dooku left the Jedi and was recruited by Darth Sidious who was in the market for a new apprentice. Based on what Jango Fett says, Dooku was involved with ordering the clone army (he got Jango to be the template for the clones) and I assume he killed Sifo-Dyas after he placed the order for the army.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

Sidious refers to Dooku as "Lord Tyranus" so he's a Sith apprentice in Attack Of The Clones. I can't remember if it's specified in AOTC but Qui-Gon's death was the final straw for Dooku being a Jedi. So shortly after The Phantom Menace, Dooku left the Jedi and must have been recruited by Darth Sidious who was in the market for a new apprentice. I agree that he was involved with ordering the clone army (either under the guise of Sifo-Dyas or killing Sifo-Dyas after they used him to place the order for the clones).

Dooku being a Jedi until Qui-Gon's death and being part of the clone order seem incompatible. If he was part of the clone order than he was on the dark side for 10 years and not a Jedi.

 

[TravisR]

Dooku being a Jedi until Qui-Gon's death and being part of the clone order seem incompatible. If he was part of the clone order than he was on the dark side for 10 years and not a Jedi.

10 years elapse between the two movies so I think you have to assume that very shortly after TPM, Dooku became a Sith and was involved with ordering the clones or eliminating Sifo-Dyas after he did it.

There's nothing in the movies to specifically say either way but I'm sure there's a litany of Expanded Universe material that explains (or retcons) when things happened but I'm trying to only use the movies.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

Okay, I forgot there was 10 years in-universe between the 2 movies. I was thinking closer to real time or slightly longer say 5 years.

 

[David Weicker]

What I always assumed to have happened is that right after TPM, Count Dooku left the Jedi (and became Lord Tyranus - the new Sith apprentice).

He then killed Sifo-Dyas. Then it was Count Dooku, pretending to be Sifo Dyas, who ordered the clone warriors. The clone masters wouldn't know the difference. It would appear to them that the order had the Jedi approval, but the Jedi wouldn't know about it.

 

[SamT]

The cloners say it's a long time they had no news and they are told Sifo-Dyas is dead for 10 years and nobody gets suspicious? Not to mention that such a large operation can't go unnoticed.