Star Trek TOS- 40 and 2 "Cages"

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Kevin McCorry, Dec 10, 2001.

  1. Kevin McCorry

    Kevin McCorry Stunt Coordinator

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    The final volume of Star Trek TOS is now in my hands. The transfers of "The Cage" and "Turnabout Intruder" are excellent, but I wonder why the color/B&W 1986 version of "The Cage" is on the disc together with the full color one. Isn't it rather redundant to say nothing of being obsolete. The only value it has is the Gene Roddenberry intro and extro, but why couldn't that have been edited to be on the full color version? Just seems a waste of disc space to put two versions of the same episode on one disc.
     
  2. Alex Morrow

    Alex Morrow Stunt Coordinator

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    Have you noticed how ape people went when they saw those Next Gen box sets from the UK because they felt the communicator logo should have been the one used in the series? It's pretty simple, Trek fans are insane in general and if you piss them off too much they throw bitch cakes all over the place. So insted of just one modified version of The Cage they put both versions on there to help keep the Trek purists at bay.
     
  3. Daron

    Daron Agent

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    >>Trek fans are insane in general and if you piss them off too much they throw bitch cakes all over the place.

    Well, gentlemen, when you consider the fact that we TOS fans have had next to no extras on our beloved TOS DVDs, I think we're entitled to at least both versions of this important production.
     
  4. CaptDS9E

    CaptDS9E Cinematographer

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    I would say something about that Trek fans are insane comment but i have better things to do then argue.
     
  5. Alex Morrow

    Alex Morrow Stunt Coordinator

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    Don't get me wrong, I'm a Trek fan. I've got all the discs and I'll pick up the Next Gen box sets also. Did anyone see Trekies?
     
  6. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
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    Kevin:

    Because the Black and White version is the original that was air. It was later redone in color.

    Parker
     
  7. Kevin McCorry

    Kevin McCorry Stunt Coordinator

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    I thought this was the case with "The Cage".

    Roddenberry shot it in 1965 in color to be privately screened and assessed by the network executives. They rejected it, and it did not air in its original form but as part of the Season 1 two-parter, "The Menagerie", with the wrap-around story concerning Spock's court-martial, and with several "Cage" scenes missing. It wasn't until the mid-1980s when Paramount was releasing episodes on video that Roddenberry chose to make "The Cage" available as part of the series, but direct-to-video. By that time, he'd lost his color master and had to reassemble "The Cage" by combining the footage in "The Menagerie" with a poor quality B&W film print for the remaining material, hence the changes in the Keeper's voice and soundtrack quality drop. A few years later, a full-color film print was discovered, and "The Cage" was rereleased in full color. It also then finally aired on television as part of a 2-hour special introduced by the TNG cast, again in full color. The part B&W/part color reconstruction of 1986 was then obsolete but stayed available on video as Episode 1, while the full color version was available as "Episode 99". The full-color version on video had no Roddenberry intro, which was presumably why the B&W/color 1986 recon still had collector value.

    But with the rerelease on DVD, I still fail to see why the Roddenberry intro/extro couldn't have been combined with the full-color version and the earlier B&W/color recon retired. Mind, I could be wrong about all of this, and the B&W may yet have historical value.
     
  8. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    I think it was good to put both versions on the disc.

    The restored version is excellent, but some color timing "bumps" occur and the soundtrack sometimes has to be 'spliced' a la LoA

    I'm not a star trek fan, but I happen to like The Cage pilot more than the actual episodes. IMO, Jeffery Hunter would have been a great star. Shatner over-acts and Hunter acts more like a real captain.

    Also, I like the fact that less of the episode takes place on the Enterprise. I never really can get into Star Trek.
     
  9. David Lambert

    David Lambert Executive Producer

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  10. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Screenwriter

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    I just wanted to say that I find the term 'bitch cakes' incredibly hilarious!![​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    Its "throw bitch cakes" that takes it over the top!:p)
     
  12. Craig S

    Craig S Producer
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    Re: "bitchcakes"
    Good to see other "NewsRadio" fans in here. [​IMG]
     
  13. Samuel Des

    Samuel Des Supporting Actor

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    Is the two-part Menagerie considered two episodes? Or one episode with two parts? And how does the Cage fit into all of this?
     
  14. David Lambert

    David Lambert Executive Producer

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    "The Menagerie" is considered "2 episodes" for purposes of numbering.

    "The Cage" was the first pilot shot, that NBC rejected (unprecedented at the time, NBC requested that a 2nd pilot be shot, which was "Where No Man Has Gone Before").

    When ST was first aired on TV, "The Cage" was never ever shown as an epsiode ("Where No Man..." was, however, although it was a few down the road). This is because there was a different Captain (Pike instead of Kirk). So, later on, a story was made that could incorporate footage from "The Cage", portraying Pike as a "previous Enterprise Captain". This was "The Menagerie".
     
  15. Peter Rohlfs

    Peter Rohlfs Stunt Coordinator

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    The changes in the keeper's voice are due to the fact that the voice actor who dubbed one of the keepers (they were actresses with male voices dubbed on) was used to play the commodore in the menagerie. So in the menagerie they redubbed the voice again. When the bw-color hybrid was made they used the menagerie soundtrack on the color and the original on the bw.

    BTW The bw-color version has value since it illustrates what was cut from the menagerie.

    Also the bw-color version has the wonderful moment when a full color Pike hurls himself at the plexiglass and ends up in BW. The keeper looks on and shakes his/her head as if to say "Look what you did now, you knocked the color out!"

    Peter
     
  16. GregK

    GregK Screenwriter

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    First off, I do understand the Home Theater Forum has a
    strict anti-bootleg policy, which I respect. But noting
    that I'm not selling nor providing info on purchasing
    such a video, I feel it's worth noting there's another
    slightly different version of the 2nd pilot, "Where No
    Man Has Gone Before". This is the one that was actually
    screened by NBC and was the version they gave the 'go' to
    the series with. This first "NBC Screening Version" as I
    call it, is not much different than the episode #2 that
    made it to air: The open is different, the opening titles
    are different, some music along with some other minor
    points. (The discarded music appears on one of the Star-
    Trek CD's)
    I'm bringing this up because if Paramount is anal enough
    (not always a bad thing!) to provide us with both versions
    of the Cage, perhaps in the future Paramount could also
    provide us with both versions of "Where No Man Has Gone
    Before"? Now Martin, I must warn you.. the downside is
    that Paramount might sell a LOT of DVDs if your company
    should go in this direction. [​IMG]
     
  17. Dave Scarpa

    Dave Scarpa Producer

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    Yeah I saw the alternate "Where No Man" a Long time ago at a convention. I'd pick up a copy if released to Disc, not sure if this is property of paramount or not. I remember Roddenberry was showing this himself. (Yes I actually saw the man in person!)
     
  18. Jaxon's Dad

    Jaxon's Dad Supporting Actor

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  19. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    Kevin-

    As you pointed out, in the late 80's, Paramount released on video the b/w and color version as separate videos. I recall how it was quite a surprise then to find the full color version and us hapless TOS Trek fan who already bought the B/W recon earlier were happy to go and buy it again in full color. Which is what I did when I collected the laserdiscs at that time.

    I suspect that Paramount is simply making a smart business move with the investment they had made to master those, it probably wasn't too much of a stretch to add both version to the last disc. There's not much extra material available to us, so why not use all that space on the disc.

    I'm glad they did it. I just got those last two last night but I've not played them yet. Can you tell if the audio was remastered in 5.1 on both the B/W and the color versions?

    Nelson
     

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