Star Trek: Strange New Worlds (2022) - Season 1 (1 Viewer)

[Sam Favate]

While DS9 is also my favorite of the Trek series, it has (for me) the most egregious of the "what happens in this episode stays in this episode" character bits. And that was the episode where O'Brien is convicted of a crime, and is sentenced to 20 years in V.R. Even though only a day, or something like that, passes in the real world, in his mind he spent 20 years in prison, and ended up killing his cellmate in order to survive. That would be enough to fuck with anyone's mind long term, and yet by the following episode, O'Brien is back to his old self.

A similar plot happens in TNG's The Inner Light, where Picard experiences a lifetime in an hour or something, and that has to be devastating. Imagine waking up one day and being told that your life, your children were just virtual.

Picard showed some evidence of recalling those experiences, but you are correct that O'Brien did not.

 

[Johnny Angell]

A similar plot happens in TNG's The Inner Light, where Picard experiences a lifetime in an hour or something, and that has to be devastating. Imagine waking up one day and being told that your life, your children were just virtual.

Picard showed some evidence of recalling those experiences, but you are correct that O'Brien did not.

Personally, I think these kind of plots are absurd. The emotional effect on one who experiences “a life in an hour” would be profound and extreme. The victim would need long term therapy.

 

[Jason_V]

While DS9 is also my favorite of the Trek series, it has (for me) the most egregious of the "what happens in this episode stays in this episode" character bits. And that was the episode where O'Brien is convicted of a crime, and is sentenced to 20 years in V.R. Even though only a day, or something like that, passes in the real world, in his mind he spent 20 years in prison, and ended up killing his cellmate in order to survive. That would be enough to fuck with anyone's mind long term, and yet by the following episode, O'Brien is back to his old self.

Two things: one, at the end of the episode, O'Brien is going to go to counseling. That was a requirement, IIRC, from both Bashir and Sisko. Aside from Troi and one season of Ezri, we don't really know what 24th century counseling is like. It's conceivable - but kinda far fetched- to think counseling would "solve" the problem.

Second, we also don't know how long passes between the end of "Hard Time" and the beginning of "Shattered Mirror." O'Brien is seen briefly in "Shattered Mirror" and barely at all in the episode after ("The Muse"). It could be weeks or months.

Again, neither of these arguments holds up all that well, but they're possibilities/things to ponder.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I love what Rick and Morty did with the concept.

 

[Josh Dial]

Personally, I think these kind of plots are absurd. The emotional effect on one who experiences “a life in an hour” would be profound and extreme. The victim would need long term therapy.

Well, the ordeal did have a lifelong impact on Picard. For what it's worth The Inner Light won a Hugo and is widely considered to be one of the greatest episode of Star Trek ever (and on many lists of the greatest episodes of all television).

On a related topic, episodes like "Far Beyond the Stars" and "Hard Time" and "Past Tense" and "Duet" (to a lesser extent) demonstrate my main issue with DS9. I know the show is loved here on the HTF--and despite my many critical posts about aspects of the show (including this one!) I do like it--but it is still flawed. The best episodes of DS9 are largely those that completely divorced from the show's central conceit: life on a star base at the edge of the quadrant.

Now many of the best episodes of the Star Trek franchise are similarly less concerned with the central themes of Star Trek (exploration, betterment of humanity, teamwork) and are more akin to a "hard sci-fi" one-off episode of something like The Outer Limits or The Twilight Zone. However, unlike DS9, the best episodes of TNG (for example) aren't all unconcerned with the show's themes: some of the best episodes tackle the themes head-on.

Frankly, Star Trek as a franchise is an oddity for similar reasons. It is, without a doubt, one of the most important franchises in the history of story telling. It has advanced our culture, our politics, our science. Yet the franchise is undoubtedly flawed and has, despite all its deserved accolades, been tragically under-served by its creative teams and has been an unfortunate byproduct of the times in which the "classic" shows were made. TNG and DS9 and Voyager all suffered from a writing and production system that just couldn't turn out 24 quality scripts and shows each season. It seems that for every "Far Beyond the Stars" we got a "Move Along Home". Why, though? Why can't all the episodes be...good? I don't mean why can't everyone like every episode--that's a crazy ask for sci-fi fans. But even if you don't like some episodes of Discovery or Picard, I think most would agree the shows were high quality productions. Was there a single "dud" episode of Picard or Disco anywhere near the "level" of TNG's "Code of Honor" or DS9's "Move Along Home"?

This sort of dovetails with my previous point about the best of Star Trek. I think too often fans view the franshise with nostalgia glasses and selective memories (one only has to look at the discussion around Disco's hologram screens ignoring the fact that the tech was in DS9). One criticism (I don't want to use the term "common" as I don't think it was common but rather simply raised by a vocal minority) is that Discover and Picard "weren't real Star Trek" because they were pessmisitic and dark and went against Roddenberry's "rules". Well, frankly, most of the best episodes of Star Trek were dark, pessimistic, highly (highly) critical of contemporary society, and violated every one of Roddenberry's rules.

TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise" is a fantastic example of what I think a lot of fans mean when they refer to "classic" Star Trek ideals. It's an amazing episode of "pure" Star Trek. But let's be real here: some of the best episodes of TNG had Picard fighting--or at least questioning--an unjust Federation or Star Fleet. The best episodes had conflict amongst the characters. The best episodes placed our modern society in full relief and attacked it. The best episodes were largely unconcerned with exploration or seeking out new life.

I'm basically always in a constant stage of revisiting the franchise. I start with TOS and go through each show watching one episode (or two) per week in airdate order. Then when I get to the end I start all over again. Each pass through I find myself questioning more and more what it is about the franchise that I truly like. These days I'm less interested in a "wagon train to the stars" and more interested in a highly critical examination of what works and what doesn't work in our society. I'm less interested in watching a society that has already reached a post-scarcity utopia and more interested in thinking about how we can get there ourselves.

I want to watch a Federation that is in the middle of answering the question in Michael Burnham's speech: how do I defeat fear? I want to see a Federation that is taking shortcuts in the path to righteousness, that breaks the rules that protects us from our basest instincts, that allows desperation to destroy moral authority. I want to watch a show that accuses us of "being guilty of all those things" and says "we can only look forward" and then takes me there.

 

[Johnny Angell]

@Josh Dial I am not as passionate about ST (I refer to all of it) as you are. I’d be interested in your list of the best and worst of ST.

 

[Jason_V]

Was there a single "dud" episode of Picard or Disco anywhere near the "level" of TNG's "Code of Honor" or DS9's "Move Along Home"?

To answer your question directly: most of Disco S1 is a misfire for me. From the bold but failed attempt at reinventing the Klingons to the absurd arc in the Mirror Universe. And for Picard, the finale.

"Code of Honor" has it's own, special brand of problems and everyone involved is very very quick is condemn it. The director got fired and it regularly ranks as one of, if not the worst, TNG episode ever. "Move Along Home" probably sounded decent on paper and face planted on the screen. It happens...though it's not the worst episode of DS9, ironically.

Aside from the standard "boldly going" jazz we all know about, Trek is always about people of different backgrounds coming together to do something together. To figure out how those different beliefs work with humans of the future. TOS and TNG dabbled in that idea while DS9, in different ways, said "hey, here's a place you're not going to leave and you're all different...deal with it." They didn't always do it perfectly, but they were exploring the human condition in different ways. Not always successfully, mind you.

I'd always argue that the "exploration" and "boldly going" piece to Trek doesn't have to be about new aliens or a planet of the week. It can 100% be about exploring how our characters navigate a situation or learn from it...or what it can teach the audience. "Hard Time," for example, from DS9 has a pretty hopeless climax. The fact that O'Brien, this character we've known for years, is broken by his experience and puts the phaser to his head is powerful. That resonated with at least one person in the audience who contemplated suicide instead of seeking help. The end, though, reminds O'Brien and the audience that you can overcome anything if you reach out to the people who love and care about you. That's the exploration: the human condition in the context of the future.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

While DS9 is also my favorite of the Trek series, it has (for me) the most egregious of the "what happens in this episode stays in this episode" character bits. And that was the episode where O'Brien is convicted of a crime, and is sentenced to 20 years in V.R. Even though only a day, or something like that, passes in the real world, in his mind he spent 20 years in prison, and ended up killing his cellmate in order to survive. That would be enough to fuck with anyone's mind long term, and yet by the following episode, O'Brien is back to his old self.

Simple. O'Brien got a lifetime of support and therapy in a separate VR session that only took 1 hour of real life time, which happened between episodes.

 

[Nelson Au]

Right now, today, we are living in times that feel like 1968.

What I liked so much about Star Trek TOS is that it’s a reaction to the times of turbulence in the 1960’s and the series would deal with the social and political issues head on. Not every episode did that of course. And I really liked that we had 79 separate stories on TOS to tell a variety of stories. The 80’s and 90’s and 2000’s Star Trek wasn’t the same as the world changed, but still tried those shows tried to follow that ethic of story telling.

Picard’s first season and Discovery use the season long story arc as we’ve discussed and I’m ok with it. but if we don’t buy the basic premise, that Is a whole season that’s not going to go well. I agree that I didn’t like the finale of Picard that much, I thought it was OK. I didn’t hate it. I enjoyed several of the episodes.

I‘m interested in seeing what they will do with Strange New Worlds. Its being conceived now in very turbulent times that feels like a turning point, though it may not be a very lengthy period. I imagine it will influence the producers and writers.

 

[jayembee]

One criticism (I don't want to use the term "common" as I don't think it was common but rather simply raised by a vocal minority) is that Discover and Picard "weren't real Star Trek" because they were pessmisitic and dark and went against Roddenberry's "rules".

Which is bizarre -- at least the "went against Roddenberry's 'rules'". Fans seem to have a love/hate relationship with Roddenberry. They want optimism, because that's what Roddenberry's Trek as all about, and yet everyone seems to hate The Motion Picture, which was the most Roddenberry-like of all of the films. Prior to the debut of Discovery (and a good deal after) I saw any number of comments by fans all over the net complaining about how it "wasn't my Trek" and was just "ticking off all of the SJW boxes" and seemingly forgetting that Roddenberry was one of the grand-daddies of SJWs on television.

 

[Sam Favate]

Jonathan Frakes says he will be directing at least one episode of Strange New Worlds.

I say: Thumbs up!

Jonathan Frakes Looks Forward To Directing ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ With His “Three Old Friends”

The TNG star also talks about returning to direct on 'Picard' season two.

trekmovie.com

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Jonathan Frakes says he will be directing at least one episode of Strange New Worlds.

I say: Thumbs up!

Jonathan Frakes Looks Forward To Directing ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ With His “Three Old Friends”

The TNG star also talks about returning to direct on 'Picard' season two.

trekmovie.com

He's one of the most consistently solid directors of "Trek" working today. There are a few Trek episodes and films by him that don't quite work, but in every case the direction isn't the problem. He deserves enormous credit for making First Contact feel like a modern blockbuster, despite being made on a budget way smaller than most blockbusters. And on the TV front, he's really adept at adapting to match the individual style of each show; his TNG episodes feel like TNG, his DS9 episodes feel like DS9, his Voyager episodes feel like Voyager, his Discovery episodes feel like Discovery, and his Picard episodes feel like Picard.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

He did one of the best “Dollhouse” episodes too; my wife loves The Librarians which has an almost Indiana Jones vibe to it. He’s very versatile and everyone who works with him loves the experience.

 

[Philip Verdieck]

He's one of the most consistently solid directors of "Trek" working today. There are a few Trek episodes and films by him that don't quite work, but in every case the direction isn't the problem. He deserves enormous credit for making First Contact feel like a modern blockbuster, despite being made on a budget way smaller than most blockbusters. And on the TV front, he's really adept at adapting to match the individual style of each show; his TNG episodes feel like TNG, his DS9 episodes feel like DS9, his Voyager episodes feel like Voyager, his Discovery episodes feel like Discovery, and his Picard episodes feel like Picard.

Are you saying we can forgive him for being Captain America?

That time Jonathan Frakes cosplayed as Captain America

For nearly three decades now it's been impossible to see Jonathan Frakes as anyone but Jean-Luc Picard's "Number One," Commander William Riker. But there was a time before Star Trek entered his life when Frakes had a lower profile gig as another iconic sci-fi character. Behold, Jonathan Frakes...

www.syfy.com

 

[Philip Verdieck]

They want optimism, because that's what Roddenberry's Trek as all about, and yet everyone seems to hate The Motion Picture, which was the most Roddenberry-like of all of the films.

Um, no, not really. Ascribing dislike to TMP because of it being Roddenberry-like is inaccurate.

There are a number of reasons TMP didn't go over well:

1) Bland uniforms. You want white and grey, we got it!
2) A recycled script. Lets take Changeling and make a movie out of it.
3) Slow pacing. At times this movie dragged. Lets make a homage to 2001.
4) This was the long awaited return of Trek and that was what we got.

I would argue, that STIV was a success and was just as Roddenberry like.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

“Roddenberry-like” is such a nebulous term because his philosophy changed throughout his life. Which Roddenberry from which period?

Have Gun Will Travel/Lieutenant Roddenberry is very different from Questor/Planet Earth Roddenberry which is again different from TNG Roddenberry - but they’re all him.

 

[Jason_V]

I would argue, that STIV was a success and was just as Roddenberry like.

Unpopular opinion: ST IV was a success precisely because it didn't spend a majority of its time in space or dealing with bumpy headed aliens. It dealt with 1980's fish out of water humor and a theme which almost everyone in the world should be able to get behind. It's about half Trek for me...and easily the worst of the original six movies.

 

[Johnny Angell]

Unpopular opinion: ST IV was a success precisely because it didn't spend a majority of its time in space or dealing with bumpy headed aliens. It dealt with 1980's fish out of water humor and a theme which almost everyone in the world should be able to get behind. It's about half Trek for me...and easily the worst of the original six movies.

Oh, I have to disagree with you on that. I think IV was amongst the best ST films. To each his own.

 

[Sam Favate]

I love TMP for a variety of reasons, but one thing it doesn’t have is an abundance of fun. There’s almost no levity in the entire film, and that’s no fun for the audience.

IV is very close to a type of TOS story, and it’s great, but it is missing the romance of spacefaring.

 

[jayembee]

Um, no, not really. Ascribing dislike to TMP because of it being Roddenberry-like is inaccurate.

I didn't say that people didn't like TMP because it was Roddenberry-like. Sure, it had its problems. But few fans were willing to give it any credit for trying to be hopeful and positive about the future, which is what Roddenberry was aiming at with Star Trek.