Paramount+ Star Trek: Picard Season Two (1 Viewer)

[Chris Will]

If the Borg queen had just shown her face in episode 1 then this whole ordeal would have been avoided. Many times in Trek the characters have confront an alien that looks like them or someone they know, they would have taken more time to understand the situation. But she had to hide her face to kick off the poorly written plot of this season.

Sorry to be a downer, I know many here have been enjoying this season. But after the finale, I just think the story they told was weak and full of plot holes. Honestly, in the end, it feels like fan fiction.

I will bow out of this discussion so that those that enjoyed the season can have an enjoyable discussion without my whining. See you for season 3 or in the SNW thread, which is already lightyears ahead of Discovery and Picard after just 1 episode.

 

[David Weicker]

I thought the show was terrific.
I thought the finale was wonderful.

I did feel emotional with the final Q scene.

Frankly, the majority of the complaints I read here have NOTHING to do the show that was presented, and ALL about the fact it wasn't the show those people wanted.

The "I hated it because it should have been ..." Most of these complaints started at episode 1 and were simply rehashes that "its still not what I want"

I had an extremely entertaining several weeks.

 

[joshEH]

If the Borg queen had just shown her face in episode 1 then this whole ordeal would have been avoided. Many times in Trek the characters have confront an alien that looks like them or someone they know, they would have taken more time to understand the situation. But she had to hide her face to kick off the poorly written plot of this season.

Sorry to be a downer, I know many here have been enjoying this season. But after the finale, I just think the story they told was weak and full of plot holes. Honestly, in the end, it feels like fan fiction.

Uh...remember that Q zapped them into the alternate Confederacy-timeline BEFORE Jurati might've revealed herself? Had he not done this, she might very well have been on the verge of unveiling herself, which pretty much would've resulted in the encounter going more or less closely to what we saw in this episode. And if an unstoppable Borg-entity was hacking into and overriding a Starfleet vessel's computers, self-destruct has been canonically established as a solidly-viable countermeasure, even for lesser species attempting to take control (i.e., TOS, TNG, VOY, etc.).

Put another way: Q is by no means blameless, here. Very likely he jumped the gun knowing that his own mortality was fast approaching.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I have qualms about this finale -- too pat in certain places, and too messy in others. But emotionally, the resolution worked well. And the episode tied up this season's stories while leaving a big mystery for next season.

For this entire season, almost every beat that SHOULD be a gut punch or a cause for celebration...just isn't. The Europa mission blasts off with Renee...cool, the show just moves on.

It did feel like this should have been more of a moment, given its importance to the future of the galaxy. But we only got one glimpse of Renée on a television screen, and no hint of the scale or grandeur of humanity's first manned mission to the outer solar system.

Picard hugging Q should be closure to their decades long relationship filled with emotion and forgiveness (apparently) and understanding...it's not.

I disgree with you here, though. I thought it was a wonderful moment, wonderfully played. Q has given Picard this gift on his way out, and Picard in turn gives Q a real moment of grace in his final minutes.

Two great actors, with decades of history onscreen together, that resolved beautifully (and emotionally) for me.

The unmasking of the Queen on the Stargazer should be this wonderfully amazing moment...it's not.

I think we all figured that it was Jurati inside the Borg helmet by the end of the previous episode -- even if it wasn't her in the original timeline. Given that, I didn't have a problem with the brevity of that moment. And Pill injected a a few moments of Jurati's signature personality into the Borg queen that made me smile.

But the first alliance between the Federation and a Borg collective should have been a very momentous occasion, and I didn't feel like the episode gave that moment enough space to breathe. Even the technobabble of the threat felt very rushed.

This season, overall, doesn't work on a storytelling basis. Maybe I'll feel differently down the road.

I think it works well on an emotional basis: Q, dying alone, wants to spare his friend Picard from the same fate. To do so, he's willing to risk the whole rest of the galaxy as collateral damage.

And Picard rewards Q's faith in him, by putting the key back under the loose brick, even though he fully knows the heartache it will bring him. That's an extraordinary moment, basically a declaration by Picard that the journey has been worth the pain.

Lest I am downbeat on the season finale, this is what did work for me: the IDEA that Picard had to put his past behind him (his mother and the Borg) to achieve what he ended up achieving in the end. Only one man could make peace with the Borg...a man who was assaulted, raped and captured by them. If he could trust them-it helps seeing the Queen's face, of course-then anyone should be able to.

One thing that this show has done beautifully in both seasons, as compared to the more static nature of TNG's characters, is really explore how Picard is changed by those around him, and how those around Picard are changed by him.

At the beginning of Season 1, just about every main character was broken and damaged. Their growth and healing has mirrored Picard's own.

The two characters written out in this finale, Jurati and Rios, were basically fully healed by their exits. Jurati, who was always too influenced by authority, exits as a figure of immense authority. Rios, who was so isolated and alone, finds himself a family.

I want to see Picard's victory tour, so to speak. I want to see the ramifications from Seven's field commission-that certainly calls back to the conversation she had with Raffi an episode or two ago. I want to see Starfleet struggling with incorporating their biggest enemy. I want to see Picard TELLING Starfleet Command and the Federation what he did here.

I would imagine that the final season will be Picard tackling whatever lies on the other side of that transwarp corridor. The first season tackled Picard's present, this season tackled Picard's past, which should mean next season Picard in unencumbered as he dives headfirst into his future.

I also haven't mentioned my favorite part of the season: Seven and Raffi. I'd watch, in a heartbeat, these two in their own show, hopping from planet to planet solving crimes (a procedural) or having an apartment next to some wacky neighbors (a sitcom). Such great chemistry and so many wonderful moments for them...the finale didn't disappoint me in that regard.

One thing that I liked about their relationship is that they're too adults. They'd both done a lot living before they met, and they both have a lot of baggage. There is evidence that both of them are bisexual; Raffi had a husband and a son, and Annika was married to a man in the awful timeline. But all of their life's experiences have made them good for each other, and part of the attraction is how different they are.

The last thing we see with Adam Soong just made me roll my eyes. I don't care, I don't care, I don't care. Enough of the Soong family.

The one thing I appreciated with that last reveal is that the file was an old hard copy, which would seem to confirm that Project Khan (and the first generation of Augments) came into being before electronic recordkeeping was common. That in turn would seem to confirm that nineties timeline for the Eugenics Wars, without getting bogged down in the differences between the Prime continuity and our world.

So the Traveler's are the bosses of the Supervisors. Cool, got it. I think that makes sense. And he recruited Kore to be a Supervisor. Alrighty, didn't see that coming, so good on the writers.

Having Rios's stepson be the guy who uses the organism that Picard's ancestor discovered made the universe feel too small; it's like something Star Wars would do.

But this reveal felt very organic. The beings that assigned Gary Seven to Earth felt far beyond the capabilities of even the Federation of Kirk's era. If they had just been another starfaring species, the Federation surely would have encountered them by the 25th century. Having them be Travelers makes a lot more sense. And having Wesley Crusher be one of them pays off a breadcrumb that was left way back in TNG 1x06.

Uh...remember that Q zapped them into the alternate Confederacy-timeline BEFORE Jurati might've revealed herself? Had he not done this, she might very well have been on the verge of unveiling herself, which pretty much would've resulted in the encounter going more or less closely to what we saw in this season-finale episode.

Was it Jurati under the helmet before Q intervened and sent them back, though?

It seems like there are three timelines in play:

1. The original timeline, in which Picard and company never went back in time, the events of "Time's Arrow" did take place, and Tallinn died ensuring Renee Picard made it on that mission, without ever meeting her one on one.
2. The revised timeline, in which Renee Picard never made her discovery on the Europa mission, with a resulting dystopia.
3. The corrected timeline, in which Picard and company did go back in time, Tallinn did meet Renee one on one before giving her life to ensure Renee made it on that mission. This timeline is broadly the same as the original timeline, even leading to the same moment of crisis, but certain people directly tied to those crucial events in the 21st century lived different experiences, including Guinan.

In the revised timeline, Jurati spent four centuries among the stars, slowly and quietly building her altruistic Collective while staying out the way of history (and the main Borg collective). The main Borg collective collapses as a result of the events in the "Voyager" finale, and Jurati's Collective is there to pick up the pieces and prepare for this moment.

Even under this proposed explanation, there are inconsistencies. This Guinan, for instance, likely remembers the events of both "Time's Arrow" and "Picard" Season 2, since the corrected timeline would have again led to the events of "Time's Arrow" in the 24th century. Rios shouldn't have vanished because in this timeline he never went back in time. The rest of the time travelers retained their memories from Q's intervention but were restored to their bodies in the corrected timeline.

All in all, anything that doesn't quite jive can be explained away by Q.

 

[Francois Caron]

1. Why does Picard look like a cone head and 2. You don’t like the show, you’ve made your points. Give it a rest, would ya?

You think I'm bad now? You should see me whenever I visit a modern art museum!

 

[Dave Scarpa]

Well that’s over, the Q final scene was not earned by this season, a mess of convoluted plot points. Oh and Wesley crusher comes across as a creepy stalker now

 

[Museum Pieces]

Someone justify the Not Laris character. I just didn't get that. There was nothing Not Laris did that Laris couldn't have done if she simply had the ability to go into Picard's mind. That could have been explained because she was a Romulan. I just don't get Not Laris. Like so many things about Picard S2, it doesn't make a lick of sense.

Making Seven Borg again? Seems like a change just for the sake of a change. The Borg Queen said it was "a price" but Seven doesn't act like it cost her anything.

Honestly I cried during the scene between Picard and Q. But again, honestly, that emotion came from 1987 and Encounter at Farpoint, not the culmination of this season. Nonetheless, I thought it was pretty damn powerful. With all due respect to Sir Patrick, John de Lancie gave the best performance of the season, IMO (with a tip of my cap to Alison Pill, for sure).

Maybe I'll get more out of it when I do the re-watch. As a whole, knowing what I know about Q and Picard now (which is admittedly lovely), I'm left dissapointed by the irrationality of it. One minute Q is trying to convince another sentient being (Soong) to murder another sentient being (Renee), and then I'm suppose to accept that the Q I know is back in the embrace of another human he cares about.

Despite a few lovely moments, the totality of it doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

[Sam Favate]

It was a good season overall, but I’m particularly sad to see that Rios won’t be back. He was a great new character and deserved to be seen more. I also hear Elnor won’t be back, which is a shame since he was really short-changed this season.

I liked it, but liked the first season better. The lack of Michael Chabon was very noticeable this year.

 

[Jason_V]

I think we all figured that it was Jurati inside the Borg helmet by the end of the previous episode -- even if it wasn't her in the original timeline. Given that, I didn't have a problem with the brevity of that moment. And Pill injected a a few moments of Jurati's signature personality into the Borg queen that made me smile.

Yeah, I think we all figured that out by the end of "The Star Gazer," if not earlier in the episode. But just because the audience is episodes ahead of the story doesn't mean the story skips over the story beat, at least in my opinion. We all knew Jadzia was dead in "Tears of the Prophets," but we still got Worf's scream to tell his gods a warrior was coming. We got Sisko talking to the casket. We got Sisko full of self doubt...and a few episodes in S7 revolving around the effects of her dying.

It just felt skipped over for me and was one storyline that went thud. We see how Jurati becomes the Queen, which I have no problem with...aside from the fact Picard left the least capable "warrior" among his new crew with a deadly enemy...

But the first alliance between the Federation and a Borg collective should have been a very momentous occasion, and I didn't feel like the episode gave that moment enough space to breathe. Even the technobabble of the threat felt very rushed.

Outside of the first two episodes of this season, each episode has been under 50 minutes in length, with one clocking in under 40. This is streaming, guys. You don't need to fit into a network time slot. This episode in particular could have used an extra couple of minutes to focus on that alliance, Seven's commission and the sheer galactic importance of what is happening. It feels like the end of Voyager to me: they led "Endgame" with Voyager getting home, so the producers didn't want to end the show in the same way. Instead, we get half the main crew off screen on Voyager's approach to Earth. That is supposed to be the culmination of the entire series, seven years of adversity, adventure, learning, hope. But it's like a lead balloon. That episode needed a few more minutes for the gravity of the situation to sink in. Same thing with this episode.

Again, as with Season 1 and every other show on P+ right now, I have issues with Picard. But I'm not coming at this from a "this isn't Trek" perspective. I have watched every single episode and have enjoyed learning how my opinions are different, and why they're different, from other people's. In no way has it ever gone through my mind that I need to have a contrarian opinion just to be contrary or have I ever set out to dampen everyone else's enthusiasm for the show. Even with the problems I have with Season 1 and Season 2, I'll still be here for Season 3 next year. And all the other shows.

 

[jayembee]

Outside of the first two episodes of this season, each episode has been under 50 minutes in length, with one clocking in under 40. This is streaming, guys. You don't need to fit into a network time slot.

One of the things, other than this, that has felt weird about all of the current Trek shows is that they also follow the traditional "act" structure, with mini-climaxes and a fade to black where you'd expect a commerical break. It's been my suspicion that CBS/Paramount has deliberately done this (and the traditional episode length) because they're structuring these shows to be easily adaptable to some sort of linear syndication. Possibly on the Paramount cable network? Does that have commercials? I can't recall having watched anything on that network.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I think it’s deliberate because Paramount offers both ad free and ad supported subscriptions. If you have the with ads version, you get a commercial break at that point.

 

[jayembee]

I think it’s deliberate because Paramount offers both ad free and ad supported subscriptions. If you have the with ads version, you get a commercial break at that point.

I wasn't thinking about that, but, yeah...that makes sense.

 

[Sam Favate]

So, what was the big event threat that the Borg wanted to stop? Do we know? Is it just some random space destructo beam that they needed to be there to prevent? Or is this (and the new transwarp conduit) something we think will be revisited in season 3?

Also, I may be misremembering but didn't John DeLancie say he was in season 3?

 

[Jason_V]

So, what was the big event threat that the Borg wanted to stop? Do we know? Is it just some random space destructo beam that they needed to be there to prevent? Or is this (and the new transwarp conduit) something we think will be revisited in season 3?

Well, based on the fact

Spoiler: SPOILER

Alison Pill has said she did not film anything for S3

, I don't know if we're going to see that character again or not. It seems they would go together to me. See one, see the other. Don't see one, it's hard to understand why we wouldn't see the other.

 

[jayembee]

So, what was the big event threat that the Borg wanted to stop? Do we know? Is it just some random space destructo beam that they needed to be there to prevent?

Maybe they're trying to prevent Marvin the Martian from using his Alludium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator to blow some shit up.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The Borg detected the coming emergence of that beam, what they called “a galactic event” - had the Borg and Federation not partnered together, the destructive force would have wiped out the sector, destroying untold numbers of worlds and billions of lives.

It appears that that beam was not a random or naturally occurring event, but intentional actions from an unseen and unknown entity, for reasons currently unknown. It could very easily be a hook for the next season, or it could be something not addressed again. I don’t really see it as a cliffhanger because it’s emergence is self-contained within the story - stopping it brings the Borg and Federation together, and the Borg’s commitment to monitoring the phenomenon gives them purpose within that alliance.

As for Q - I don’t know if DeLancie is speaking out of turn when he mentioned working on season three and inadvertently revealed something meant to be secret, or if he misspoke because both seasons were shot back to back and he wasn’t aware of where his episodes would land within that spectrum.

 

[Sam Favate]

FWIW, Isa Briones also says she is not returning for season 3. That means, Cabrera, Evagora, Pill and Briones won’t be back. That makes only Michelle Hurd the “new” cast member for the third season.

UPDATED: More ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Cast Members Confirm They Are Not Coming Back For Season 3

There is also an update from one of season two's big cameos.

trekmovie.com

 

[Jason_V]

Well, this is called wiping the slate clean for next year. I'm glad Jeri and Michelle are coming back, though. I don't understand how Pill isn't going to come back based on where Season 2 ended, but...eh.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Maybe Pill will be returning but is under an NDA not to speak about it until the third season airs. Or perhaps the writers have felt that her story arc has concluded. I don’t think we can really say that with certainty this far away. I would not be unsatisfied if she didn’t appear, but would not be disappointed if she did.

One of the things I really appreciate about television now vs twenty years ago, or really, premium TV vs standard TV, is a willingness to allow cast members to depart once their storylines have concluded. Too many older shows lost their sense of freshness and believability because it was an immutable fact of life that these cast members would always be present, so the shows had to bend over backwards to justify keeping characters around when their appearances no longer made sense.

 

[Nelson Au]

With all the excitement for the Strange New Worlds premiere, I’ve not posted anything about the Picard finale.

It was a nice final 2 episodes that wrapped up the season and the mystery. I wasn’t surprised by how the events wrapped up. I kind of figured that Rene would make it onto the ship and fulfill her destiny.

‘I was genuinely surprised by the appearance of as a Supervisor. That was a nice way to wrap up thst story thread.

I also found the two scenes between Tallinn and Q as the highlights for Picard as he made his heartfelt goodbyes to them. The scene with Q was pretty surprising to me and it appears others too. It was touching that Q said what he said to Picard and why.

The resolution with Jurati Queen wasn’t that much of a surprise. What I didn’t think worked was the giant space anomaly the Borg needed help with. In retrospect, I can see that Jurati was still in there in the queen, so she saw the threat and wanted to protect the Federation. What I felt was lacking was the anomaly itself. I kept thinking, another giant event that threatens everyone one? This is done one too many times for Discovery. So I didn’t feel that worked. That destucto beam sure seemed small. It only took those few little ships to stop it?

My guess, this threat will be the reason Picard gets the Enterprise crew back to investigate this threat in a TNG style season to wrap the series next year.

On the whole, it was a rather grandiose thing Q did just to get Picard to re-evaluate his feelings about his mother. He put everyone through such pain and sent them to the past. I’m not sure it was working for me as a backdrop to have those great scenes with Q and Picard.