Star Trek - Nemesis (2 Viewers)

[Ivan Lindenfeld]

Upon careful review of the film on DVD as a rental and viewing of the deleted scenes and selected bits o f commentary I have decided one thing made this a ** instead of a *** or ****: Directors who are their own editors. They guy completely lost track of his story in the editing room. Baird brags how he comes from an editing background and all I can say is "Thanks, idiot."

This just means that I support the opinion of many many others in this thread that there is a better movie out there and it was even filmed. The deleted scenes (not all of them, but many of them) being included would have made for a much better film.

Hell, I didn't even mind Data singing. But where are all these fans that think Data is this great Trek character? I am not one of them. I didn't give a whippy shit that he dies. I really felt nothing emotionally upon either viewing, theatrical or HT. And yes, I am very familiar with his history via TNG on TV.

My wife put it well (I like to include her comments as well on movies we discussed) when she said "Nobody that has not seen the TV series these characters are from will understand this movie one bit."

It was an episode, not a movie, no matter how many times Baird says it stands alone. The guy is nuts. He can direct a space battle pretty well, though. And the special effects were very good excepy in once case, the sinphoniumparamecium device on the Scimitar. Look ma, CGI!



Shoulda let Riker direct again. At least he gave us First Contact.

 

[Bryan Tuck]

My wife put it well (I like to include her comments as well on movies we discussed) when she said "Nobody that has not seen the TV series these characters are from will understand this movie one bit."

Which is why the loss of some of those character moments from Logan's script is particularly frustrating. He set out to write a script for the fans, and Baird tried to make it stand alone. But Baird was coming from a newbie point-of-view; maybe Berman should have explained things better to him.

Anyway, I don't know who to blame, because I don't know whose decision it was to take all that stuff out. So, I rest my case. Decent movie, but highly flawed. Could have been easily fixed with a little more careful editing.

 

[Robert James Clark]

Shoulda let Riker direct again. At least he gave us First Contact.

But he didn't get the job because he gave us Insurrection...

 

[Nick Graham]

Has Logan's original script shown up online anywhere yet?

 

[Dave Scarpa]

Cannot Blame Frakes for insurrection his direction was Sound enough, he did'nt write the thing

 

[David Lambert]

I agree with that, Scarpad!

 

[Norm]

Didn't it seem out of character for Picard to be racing around the desert planet carelessly? It seems like they throw things in to make non fans go wow.

I never liked the way they had James Cromwell portray Dr. Zefram Cochrane as a drunken rock & roller!

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Norm wrote (post #168):

Yeah, well, maybe. But Mr. "Outsider Director" Baird says in one of the interviews among the extras that he told Mr. Stewart to play it as if "here's a man who's been 'by-the-book' and restrained all his career and now's his chance to let loose and have a little fun". Consequently, that's how Stewart played those scenes.

That's always one of the risks of bringing in an "outside" director: On the one hand, he can be "fresh" and "innovative", and/or, on the other, he can say, "To hell with the character's past. We're doing it my way.", and, yet, do the production no material good. You be the judge here.

 

[Mike Graham]

I thought the scene where Picard, Worf and Data head down to the desert planet for the twin in their trolley the worst moment in all of the TNG movies - it was completely pointless and should've been included on the DVD as a deleted scene with an introduction by the director saying, "What the heck were we thinking?"

 

[T r o y]

I thought the space ship battles sounded really good. Very good bass and very dynamic. Just the way I like it !

I liked this one over any of the other TNG flicks.

 

[Mark Lee]

Wonder why ol' Wil Wheaton (ST fandom's fave whipping boy.... ) managed to get listed on the closing credits, when his scene(s) didn't even make it to the deleted scenes section, whereas someone like Steven Culp (who'll always be RFK to me now, no matter what movie he's in) gets the shaft, even though his scene made it into the deleted scenes? (And it can't be because the fans demanded it! I hate Wesley!!! )

 

[nicholas_g]

Wil Wheaton was at the wedding at the beginning.

 

[Sam Davatchi]

Watch my screen grabs on page 1.

 

[Simon Massey]

Well I missed this in the cinema, and having heard many bad things of the film I watched this with really low expectations knowing very little about the actual story. I have to say I was extremely surprised and pleased at how enjoyable the film was, and it did not deserve the reaction it got both from critics and the general audience.

I particularly thought the character of Shinzon was one of the best villains that the films have had - far more interesting than the last guy in Insurrection. I feel I am probably in the minority here after seeing some of the reviews, but I was impressed by Hardy, and thought he did a good job. His scenes with Picard were the best in the film for me.

Its also one of the few films where I actually felt the characters were "in danger" so to speak - Baird knows how to put an action sequence together.

I was not aware of the ending, and was quite surprised. The epilogue kind of leaves you with the impression that the filmmakers were unsure whether to stick with what they had done, but I truly felt that Data had indeed gone, and that it was a bold thing for the filmmakers to do when many fans hate things like this.
. Should future TNG films be made I would hope they keep the B4 character and the crew of the Titan in the background and allowing some of the other cast a more prominent role.

Here's hoping for a future DC as well - the first deleted scene should definitely have remained in the film, and whilst the others were largely forgettable (I agree with Baird that the deleted Shinzon introductions would have lessened the impact of when Picard met him), I heard there were others.

 

[Alan_Horner]

Geez, after six pages of comments on this, maybe I'll toss in my $.02.

Saw this in the theater and hated it. Bored out of my mind and angry at the sheer waste of it all. Picard's clone? Didn't buy that for one nanosecond. Data's long-lost "brother" (and in idiot to boot!)? I actually felt disgusted by the realization that this was the best they could come up with. Oh, you mean we're supposed to see a dual story arc with Picard/Shinzon and Data/B4??? Oh, I guess that changes... absolutely nothing.

I thought I might like the film on DVD. I've found that sometimes the home theater can bring a sense of intimacy to films. Not here. If anything, the film is even more boring at home. This thing is not only banal, it's clumsy (the experimental transporter -- for one person only, dammit! -- was particularly obvious).

And can I nominate the director's commentary track as one of the worst ever? The top prize will always remain with Friedkin's 'descriptive track for the visual impaired' contribution to The Exorcist, but this is a close second. Baird actually whispers his commentary as if he doesn't want to disturb us while we're watching the film. Good lord! I stopped listening to it halfway through when I realized -- after the zillionth time Baird mentions it -- that his main goal was to make this "a dark film!" The guy didn't even bother to comment on the cameo of Admiral Janeway. whether you love or hate her, you'd think the moment deserved some kind of reaction. It's a clue that Baird was a complete Star Trek outsider.

For me, it all boils down to the lack of heart that this movie displays. I've always felt that Star Trek was at its best when its characters could overcome whatever obstacles put before them, whether it was personal or physical. Data's sacrifice meant nothing to me. Something that would have had more meaning would have been a sacrifice on the part of Riker. He's just gotten married. He knows he's about to become the captain of his own ship. He's been Picard's right-hand man for years. A sacrifice to save the day from that perspective really would have meant something and given the film the heart it needs.

Ugh. Nemesis is now tied with The Final Frontier as the absolute worst ST film in my book. To think that the franchise ended on a such a sour note...

 

[Norm]

Ugh. Nemesis is now tied with The Final Frontier as the absolute worst ST film in my book. To think that the franchise ended on a such a sour note...

I was just thinking that today after renting Nemesis yesterday.

 

[TonyD]

i just popprd in THE OMEN.(havent seen it in years) and the editor was stuart baird.

just thought it was funny.

i guess he must have been editor on many movies that i never noticed who the editor even was.

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Norm wrote (post #177):

I tried to address that unbalanced attitude here, a post which you may or may not have seen, and which you may or may not find useful and/or interesting.

 

[Norm]

There can be more than one prototype, just look at Data, B4, Lore!

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Norm wrote (post #180):

Yes, there can be earlier models of anything. (Technically, only the first can be the "prototype"). If you look at the link I provide, I think you'll see that I'm well aware of that. The point I was making, however, is that the Star Trek producers have traditionally, and do still in this film, use the word "prototype" exactly as I defined it. (That's my statement of their definition of the term.) In any event, like it or not that explains why there is no "other" personal transporter to be had in the film, as someone asked.

Somewhat silly, I know, but that's one of the strictures the story is working under, and, so, one has to recognize and acknowledge it.