Star Trek Lower Decks (1 Viewer)

[Jason_V]

Maybe I'm just an old fogey, but the second episode didn't do anything for me. There is a great idea in it (a Rah-Rah Starfleet officer gets taken down a peg when he realizes he might not know as much as he thinks he does then learns it is all about learning every single day)...but it got drowned out for me.

I did appreciate how the A and B stories mirrored each other: Boimler's understanding of himself coupled with Rutherford bouncing from department to department to find where he really belongs.

Still not my cup of tea...only eight episodes to go.

 

[Nelson Au]

I watched the first episode last week and I’m ambivalent.

The lead character Mariner is designed as a subversive character. Thats the way I’m reading the attitude of this character. There was one line of dialogue that stuck with me and felt like a comment someone would make at work about the upper management guys. She basically said the command crew are not the idealistic high minded types we’re used to seeing in Starfleet. as I recall, she says they only care about themselves and their careers and moving up the ladder. So they are self serving and don’t really believe in the ideals of the Federation and Starfleet. Perhaps because this is not the flagship of the federation, but as they paint it, a ship that’s not that important. So perhaps that’s the attitude of a ship like that.

Mariner also struck me as someone who’d never be allowed to stay in Starfleet for very long. A superior officer wouldn’t let her stay around if she’s that undisciplined and non subordinate. However they do show she has a good side that Wants to do the right thing. Even if it bucks the rules to do it. Perhaps this is showing the exuberance of youth before they settle down and find their way.

Perhaps Boimler is the contrast written to balance out Mariner. He’s so by-the-book and seems to be the target for Mariner to tease. I did watch the second episode last night and so I see how Boimler is further trying so hard to do right and Mariner sabotages his mission. But it was nice of Mariner to make Boimler

I think the other ensigns are interesting so far. And I wanted to mention the first officer Ransom. Yes, I’ve been catching all the references to past Star Trek. The last episode had a ton of them, so those are fun. I wanted to mention Ransom because he’s like the evil version of Riker. And also, he’s voiced by Jerry O’Connell. So it’s kind of funny that Jerry and his wife Rebecca Romijn are doing a Star Trek series.

I’m ok with the animation of this show, I’ve never seen the series the show runner did before. The Cerritos is an interesting design, but with this kind of animation style, it’s not being rendered with any realism and details. I’m sure a fan has already created a realistic CG model of it by now.

So we are seeing a side of Starfleet we’ve not seen much of before. I imagine not all of it is like what we’ve seen on the elite Starfleet ships. I did recently was the TNG episode Lower Decks. I liked that episode a lot, it was very well made and written. This new show is not as serious. I know it’s meant to be humorous and fun. So I guess I’ll watch it a bit more.

 

[Josh Dial]

The lead character Mariner is designed as a subversive character. Thats the way I’m reading the attitude of this character. There was one line of dialogue that stuck with me and felt like a comment someone would make at work about the upper management guys. She basically said the command crew are not the idealistic high minded types we’re used to seeing in Starfleet.

My reading is that you are supposed to see her as jaded but ultimately wrong. Most of the jadedness, I think, comes from her relationships with her parents.

From episode two it's clear that the higher ranking officers are extremely supportive and...kind. Every one of them was fully behind Rutherford changing positions to find something that works. Nobody was cruel or dismissive. Even Ransom's interaction wasn't as harsh as we've seen before (during the Kobayashi Maru, for example, or when Worf was training Ensign Sito). The archetypal personas mask the true nature of the characters.

I think the point is that the officers are the fine and upstanding Starfleet people we've come to expect in the TNG-era. They just look a little different.

 

[Nelson Au]

Josh, I didn’t post it, but in the back of my mind, I was starting to think what you wrote, that her apparent attitude is wrong and that she’s not seeing Starfleet personal as they truly are. I wasn’t sure I believed it yet. I also was surprised by how supportive the superiors were to Rutherford’s desire to transfer. It was so over the top, I sort of missed that.

 

[DaveF]

Thanks.

My confusion is a friend advised watching episode #1 of “Short Treks” prior to watching episode #13 of STD season 2. And I got that confused with the new Lower Decks.

 

[jayembee]

Well it should have a ton of reverence for Star Trek. It is Star Trek. It is canon, not an alternate reality. The characters are as real as Picard, or Kirk.

I agree with everything you just said. But I also find myself not caring one whit whether it's canon or not. Back in the day, I used to be a big fan of "series" (I don't mean TV shows or films in this instance, but books) and nerded out on finding connections between stories/novels.

These days, I find I tend not to think about such things anymore. I'm beginning to see Star Trek the same way I see the DC movies/shows or the Marvel movies/shows. They have all of these stories ostensibly set in the same universe, and with many of the same characters, but don't really seem to connect at all. And I find I'm completely OK with that. All I really care about these days is whether I'm enjoying the project at hand. I don't need to reconcile the Harley Quinn animated series with the Birds of Prey movie with Suicide Squad with Joker and so on. Same with Trek.

And I think I'm able to see Trek this way because of how large the franchise has become, with a dozen films, almost a dozen TV shows, god knows how many novels, comics, and so on.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

This show continues to frustrate me.

I actually thought Mariner was less annoying this week, and the weird dynamic between her and the First Officer was fun.

The idea an entire starship operating on Scotty's philosophy of overstating how long tasks take in order to look good when they're completed early was fun, as was the ship's descent into chaos when the captain went overboard with trying to instill order and discipline.

But the joke at the beginning with the captain allowing a Klingon to be assassinated so her ship wouldn't look unprofessional was too dark for Star Trek. And the Cerritos starting a brush war with a new Federation member planet is too big of a screw up to be depicted so cavalierly. This show operates better when the stakes are low.

 

[Museum Pieces]

I am trying to like it but for me it seems to get most of its tension from its accelerated style more than the drama inherent in its stories. I guess I have slow ears but the characters sure do talk fast. And conflicts sure do get started and resolved fast. Too fast if you ask me. I've had a couple of good laughs through two episodes. Also seems like there's a lot of throwaway names and place droppings just to sound more like Star Trek. But I am accepting that Star Trek must grow and change or it will be hard for new generations to get drawn in and keep it alive. I heard there were 23 episodes but now it seems there are only 10. I am wondering if they produced 23 and are holding the rest back for another season.

 

[Jason_V]

Man, I really want to like Lower Decks and support big swings in concept, tone or attitude in Trek shows. But I'm not laughing with this show. It's so not Trek in every way. The characters-the captain, Ransom, Mariner, Boimler-are woefully incompetent. Ransom shoves a sword in Mariner's foot and we're meant to think she's going to falsify a report when the doctor asks what happened? And, for the sake of argument, a superior officer attacks a subordinate by shoving a sword in her foot.

The captain finally figures out her ship is a joke and runs the entire crew ragged? The doctor, the person in charge of the health of the crew, doesn't step in and say "uh, captain, not a good idea"? None of the senior staff say a word? And, oh, by the way, the ship in invaded. Again. Yawn.

The concept itself is great. It just needed to lean more toward the TNG episode "Lower Decks"...then it could be something good.

 

[Bryan^H]

But the joke at the beginning with the captain allowing a Klingon to be assassinated so her ship wouldn't look unprofessional was too dark for Star Trek. And the Cerritos starting a brush war with a new Federation member planet is too big of a screw up to be depicted so cavalierly. This show operates better when the stakes are low.

Hence, the reason I don't think a show of this type should be canon. It is just a bad idea IMO.

You can get as zany, goofy, or as dark as you want. Sure, I will laugh. But being canon, in the back of my mind knowing that all these events are actually happening in the supposed "real" ST universe...well that creates a huge divide for me in the ST realm altogether.

 

[DaveF]

I watched the first episode and loved it! Wow! Such a delight. Look forward to trying out the next two. I didn't know I wanted an animated Trek comedy, but apparently I did.

 

[DaveF]

Episode 2: I enjoy the inversion, having Ensign Boimler be something of an anti-Wesley Crusher. Boimler is very smart and well trained, but in his youth and inexperience, he's not yet competent and often fails from his lack of practical experience.

This episode brought a non-cynical take on the senior ranks with the "hooray for your passion" attitude towards Rutherford's exploration of new divisions (in order to watch a show with Tendi).

And I was glad that the Ferengi was actually an exaggerated stereotype of Ferengi to buttress Boimler's confidence.

It's not the greatest comedy. But I think it's super fun, and Lower Decks has heart and fondness for Trek while sending up its tropes. I'm hopeful it will remain fun and engaging throughout the season.

 

[Greg.K]

I think the show is fun, but it's definitely hard to take seriously as a legit Trek show. This crew from captain on down wouldn't be fit for garbage scow duty much less a starship tasked with alien contact (even if it is only second contact).

I think it would have been better to play the command crew more straight-laced, and leave the hijinks to the ensigns.

I guess I have slow ears but the characters sure do talk fast. And conflicts sure do get started and resolved fast. Too fast if you ask me. I've had a couple of good laughs through two episodes. Also seems like there's a lot of throwaway names and place droppings just to sound more like Star Trek.

It does feel a bit like they are trying to cram a 45 minute show's worth of content into 25 minutes. And yes, lots of obscure Trek references, completely fan-servicey but kind of fun to look up.

 

[jayembee]

I think the show is fun, but it's definitely hard to take seriously as a legit Trek show.

So don't take it as one. The only thing that makes it "legit" as a Trek show is the fact that the producers say it is. But the fans who simply accept that as the case are just as culpable in making it so.

 

[Bryan^H]

So don't take it as one. The only thing that makes it "legit" as a Trek show is the fact that the producers say it is. But the fans who simply accept that as the case are just as culpable in making it so.

See, that is something one can easily do, and another cannot. I unfortunately can't ignore it once I'm told that something is legitimate, and official.

 

[Jason_V]

See, that is something one can easily do, and another cannot. I unfortunately can't ignore it once I'm told that something is legitimate, and official.

Same. I'm not opposed to a personal canon and whatnot based on the things you like, but that's like cherry picking the stories or figures you like in history and pretending the rest don't exist. I personally can't do that.

 

[DaveF]

“Canon” is increasingly an unhelpful and possibly destructive concept for entertainment. Both creators and fans might do well to care less about it.

I don’t look at Lower Decks as a sacred text from which I draw canonical conclusions. It’s a fun Star Trek show.

If future shows ignore its existence, fine.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I don’t have a canonical problem with anything Lower Decks was doing.

Discovery could be occasionally frustrating because at times it seems they wanted it both ways - the audience familiarity and investment that comes with treading in a familiar history, but with plot points that seemed inappropriate for that period in the Trek timeline. They reconciled most of it by the end of season 2 with some very heavy handed “I can see the writer writing” brushstrokes, but I understand why it was annoying for some longtime Trek viewers.

Its a tough line to straddle when you’re playing in an existing sandbox.

 

[jayembee]

See, that is something one can easily do, and another cannot. I unfortunately can't ignore it once I'm told that something is legitimate, and official.

I can respect that position, but I still don't quite understand it. Think of a Trek episode or movie that you really, really like. If one of the Trek executives claimed that it wasn't canonical, would your opinion of that episode/movie change because it wasn't canonical? If not, why would your opinion of something you like differ because a Trek executive says that it is canonical?

For me, the only question is: do I like it?

And the point about Lower Decks not being able to be "taken seriously as a legit Trek show"? The point is that it's not intended to be taken seriously. It's meant to poke fun at all the usual tropes of the Trek Universe. My wife and I have laughed ourselves silly with each episode to date. Whether it's all part of official Trek canon or not is irrelevant.

Same. I'm not opposed to a personal canon and whatnot based on the things you like, but that's like cherry picking the stories or figures you like in history and pretending the rest don't exist. I personally can't do that.

That's not the same thing. History is history. A TV show is just made up shit. I remember back in the day, after Frank Miller did The Dark Knight Returns, he talked about constantly having fans at conventions ask him if the events of that mini-series "really happened". His response was "No, it's just a story". Obviously, what they were really asking was whether it was canonical or not. Nevertheless, Miller's response was to the point: as fiction, none of it actually happens.

Even from the Powers That Be, what is canonical and what isn't changes over time. DC is forever changing what is or isn't canonical in their comics, to the point where "canon" has absolutely no meaning anymore. "Such and such is canonical" these days has an understood "(for now)" qualifier attached. At the moment, Catwoman is pregnant with Batman's baby. I have little doubt that within a couple of years, DC will decide by fiat that that never happened.

With respect to Star Trek, even Roddenberry changed his mind about whether the original Animated Series was canon or not. Does that change one's approach to the series?

 

[Bryan^H]

“Canon” is increasingly an unhelpful and possibly destructive concept for entertainment. Both creators and fans might do well to care less about it.

Well said Dave. I agree strongly with your opinion on this!