Star Trek III: Search for Spock SE - 10/8/02 (1 Viewer)

[Jaxon's Dad]

John or any other Trekkers,

Is there a definitive source for what is Trek canon and what is not? I enjoy Trek very much, but consider myself more of a Star Wars fan and am quite familiar with the endless debates between Jedi fanboys over what is and isn't Star Wars canon. I'd be interested in reading/researching what qualifies as Trek canon.

Thanks in advance.

D

 

[John Berggren]

As a follow up to that question, I had heard that Roddenberry wanted Star Trek V stricken from the canon. Is there truth to this? Has it actually been done?

 

[John_Berger]

Is there a definitive source for what is Trek canon and what is not?

I sincerely doubt it when it comes to the episodes and movies. There are so many inexcusable inconsistencies that I think that it would be nearly impossible derive an all-encompassing collection of what are and what are not canon when it comes to characters and cultures.
(The inconsistencies are far, far too numerous to mention in a single thread, so please don't ask.)
I think when it comes to technology, a lot of technical reources, like the "Star Fleet Operations Manual" (which came out even before "Star Trek: TMP") and perhaps the "Star Trek: Next Generation Technical Manual" CD-ROM, probably qualify as canon for their particular sets of information.

 

[Yannick Martin]

Doug,
as I understand it, only what's appeared on screen in the 5 TV series (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT) and the movies are considered canon. The books and the animated series is not.

YM

 

[John_Berger]

As a follow up to that question, I had heard that Roddenberry wanted Star Trek V stricken from the canon.

Hell, I just want to know why he would have wanted it removed! If anything, I would have thought that ST V was very Roddenberry-esqe in its philosophical and social roots.

The original series is known for tackling social issues, personal demons, and other aspects of humanity. ("Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" is IMHO the ultimate example of this.)

ST V also tackles those issues in a way that none of the other movies did by discussing social issues of higher beings, the quest for such knowledge, and the problems with battling personal demons.

I'm quite surprised to hear that he might have wanted it to be removed.

 

[Brad Cook]

I'm glad to hear that Paramount is doing SEs of all the original films. It's funny, because last summer I complained that most of the ST films on DVD were devoid of extras, and several people lambasted me for that. It's nice to see that there are people out there who appreciate extras too.

Of course, I wound up buying ST II and III when I heard that Paramount wouldn't be doing SEs for a long time. I got rid of them on eBay recently, before their value plummeted when the SEs were announced.

Brad

 

[Kwang Suh]

I'm quite surprised to hear that he might have wanted it to be removed.

It must have been the Deck 73 thing

 

[Stephen Fagan]

It's my understanding that Roddenberry's problem with ST 5 was the chracter Sybok, since he didn't want Sybok to be Spock's half-brother.

 

[Chad E]

OK, here's a question... If Saavik's Vulcan/Romulan heritage was mentioned in the script, was it ever filmed? Is this something that could find itself restored into the Director's Edition of the film?

 

[Adrian_P]

Just an update! It seems that the Digital Bits has the full specs on this title and it's set to include a commentary by Leonard Nimoy and it's set for October 22nd. Go check it out!

 

[Phil Florian]

I would think Roddenberry would want V stricken from the canon because it was bad. I really liked the concept and maybe in the hands of a real director and writer, it may have come off fine. But Shatner can't direct himself and that did it for me. I could live with bad special effects if the story is enough to carry it. But the story and acting were so poor, the whole movie was very uncomfortable to watch.

Which is sad, because both Spock and McCoy have some nifty character moments when Sybok shows them their past. I thought that was the strongest moment in the movie and more of that stuff and it would have been a contendah.

Phil

 

[David Lambert]

Just an update! It seems that the Digital Bits has the full specs on this title and it's set to include a commentary by Leonard Nimoy and it's set for October 22nd. Go check it out!

Ummm...both Nimoy AND Robin Curtis are on that commentary track!
It ought to make our discussion here pretty moot. We should hold off discussing Saavik interpretations any more and see what they have to say for themselves!

 

[Adrian_P]

Ummm...both Nimoy AND Robin Curtis are on that commentary track!

..Ooops my bad!

 

[Mark_Davis]

2 things spring to mind
1) Canon - As someone else has stated anything that has appeared onscreen is canon apart from The animated series... This comes from direct from prducers of Trek
2) Saavik's vulcan/romulan heritage... Rumours are that it was indeed filmed... And that it has been reintegrated back into the movie for the SE DVD release... along with a certain relation of Scottie's... And a couple of other short shots (which probably won't have a canon effect)...
THerefore if point 2 comes to pass then it will indeed be canon and this will all be a moot point

 

[John Berggren]

OK, here's a question... If Saavik's Vulcan/Romulan heritage was mentioned in the script, was it ever filmed? Is this something that could find itself restored into the Director's Edition of the film?

There is no directors edition on III. It will be a special edition with the original theatrical cut. If there were to be a directors edition, now would be the time to do it.

 

[Jonathan Perregaux]

I can see why Roddenberry would have wanted Star Trek V stricken from canon: it was an awful movie!
Besides trampling on Star Trek continuity big-time, The Final Frontier was needlessly silly, the characterizations of the minor characters were dead wrong, the story itself was inherently weak*, and it was the most ineptly produced feature of the entire series (except Jerry Goldsmith's score). While much blame can be ascribed to the director, it wasn't all Shatner's fault. Many arguing cooks in the kitchen contributed to that terrible mess.
* "Weak" as in "impossible to resolve in any satisfactory manner." If you write a story about meeting God only to discover Satan, but you are trapped in the Star Trek universe where it would be laughable for Captain Kirk to actually do this, then cheat by making it an alien instead, THEN WHY BOTHER?! They may as well have done the old "Have Spock assassinate John F. Kennedy to restore the flow of history" story that Roddenberry always floated whenever a new movie started preproduction.

 

[JonZ]

This is my second favorite Star Trek movie(after Khan of course).
I'll never understand the general disliking towards it-Ive always thought it was one of the best of the series.To this day, so many years later,the destruction of the Enterprise
chokes me up every time I see it.Its my favorite scene in ANY Trek movie.
A very underrated movie.

 

[David Lambert]

"What have I done?"

"What you had to do. What you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to survive."

 

[Rob Gillespie]

The fourth film has more bad one-liners, 'silly' situations and 'daftness' than Search For Spock, and yet it always seems to be held in higher esteem. The Voyage Home is almost as bad as Trek V IMO.

 

[Todd K]

OK, here's a question... If Saavik's Vulcan/Romulan heritage was mentioned in the script, was it ever filmed? Is this something that could find itself restored into the Director's Edition of the film?

Yes, it was filmed, and I have seen it. There is a trailer out there (and I'm a bit upset it's not on the new DVD) with many alternate scenes -- including an extension to Kirk and Spock's walk through Starfleet Academy at the beginning of the movie. Kirk says something like "This cadet of yours, she's a bit emotional isn't she," to which Spock replies "She is half Romulan."

Unfortunately my tape of it is about 400 miles away right now, otherwise I'd do a video capture. Someday, though...

Todd