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Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Scott D S, Sep 21, 2008.
I certainly would not pass up a release that includes the UCLA film!
No it's really a interesting link between the script and the movie.
It has virtually everything in the script--including the little known scene with the child of Khan's people on Ceti Alpha---but it is missing all the things that make a movie finished but we sometimes ignore. The sounds of the engines and the control panels and the background chatter.
It's a long way from rough cut or work-print to the theater. I bet they forgot they even donated it to the school all those years ago.
The added "human ego" dialogue between Spock and Saavik also has music.
A few quick observations:
The print that Camper has seen sounds like an early assembly - a very early one from the description. It would contain everything from the shooting script so that Meyer and his editor could see all the possible options they had toward telling their story. These normally run REALLY long and are the equivalent of a writer's first full draft of their book. And it's the version that usually results in the director wanting to jump out the nearest window, for all the reasons that Camper describes. As a point of reference, the early assembly of Apocalypse Now ran more than 5 hours and was just a large mess. Some of the scenes from that assembly are included in the Complete Dossier DVD and the Blu-ray for that movie. But that was a situation where Coppola wanted the viewer to see the extra material.
I've never had the impression that Nicholas Meyer wanted the additional deleted material from Star Trek II to be included anywhere. This was material he cut for a reason and didn't necessarily want seen - partly for the problems that Camper was describing. The issue about Shatner restaging the fight with Butrick would have been another sore spot. The bit about David's parentage was something that became an argument not over the length of the movie but over the information. Part of this was intended to clarify what Kirk knew about the situation. Part of the argument was based on one of the most senior Paramount execs not buying the idea that David could accept Kirk as his father. In the end, Meyer won most of that argument, but he couldn't keep the Preston material - partly according to Meyer due to the line reading by Kirk of "Midshipman, you're a tiger!" not going over very well. Which sadly doomed that entire subplot. At no point in Meyer's accounts of his work does he say that he was told to remove sequences he liked just to make a running time. As a normal part of the editing process, he did weed out several moments, and other than the Preston material, the cuts don't really impact the movie in any appreciable way.
Can you do me a favor and post the time stamp? I would like to take a look at it again. Thanks.
Dave, it's all the way through the movie. I could give you multiple time stamps if you like. The whole movie has a blue streak to it. The white captain's chair has a blue tint to it, for example as seen behind Saavik in the opening simulation. Exterior shots of the Enterprise around Regula 1 are notably blue-shifted.
Again, I can go fire it up and start clocking shots - I'm not trying to give you a sarcastic answer. It's just that there are so many shots, it would be a very long post.
If it were not for the (at least, financial) success of TMP, it's fairly certain the original Star Trek film series would never have happened, let alone everything that has come since. (With Hollywood seemingly out of new ideas/ afraid to take any risks in this modern era, I'd give the current reboot series a "maybe". It would, of course, be directly based on the 79 episodes of TOS. There wouldn't be anything else to draw from).
In response to at least one earlier post, I'll personally never understand the tendency to harshly criticize, express hate or contempt/ serious dislike for major elements or portions of something that one should be more than a little happy to have at all. Are you not pleased that ST:TMP exists, or that it came out as well as it did (admit it, Robert Wise at the helm was a factor in that regard)? And was as successful as it was? Let's face it, it could have ended up something akin to a high-end "Santa Claus Conquers the Martians", but it didn't.
As for professional critics, I believe Roger Ebert was among the few who liked this film - in it's original release - and he wasn't known as the easiest critic to please. For me, that doesn't hurt. No need to remind anyone how powerful Ebert's thumb-up-or-down verdict was in his day.
Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion (and I realise the old saying "Opinions are like armpits/ a--holes..." exists for good reason), but still I find it just a little amusing when people who claim to be fans can criticize a movie as much as they do, especially a film that - like most older films - is what it is and isn't about to change (aside from a possible 3-D conversion sometime in the future).
I'm not so sure. Before Wise came onboard, it was going to be Phillip Kaufman directing, with Ken Adam as production designer. While it's impossible to know what might have been, that version could easily have equalled or surpassed what we ended up with.
I have few illusions that ST:TMP isn't a film with many flaws. It has enormous pacing issues, the story is a bit weak, and many of the characters (Kirk in particular) spend much of the movie in a bad mood. However, these flaws reduce none of the charm that TMP brings to the table IMO. It took risks with the tone of TOS (a rare thing in today's Hollywood environment), was epic in its aspirations, has effects that still impress today, and has among the top musical scores in the history of cinema.
People tend to forget the world in which TMP was released. Many (myself included) were watching TOS via reruns on independent stations via a 12" black and white, rabbit-eared TV. You got to see the shows when they aired (which granted was often every day, especially in the summer months), and there were no (or very few) VCRs. When TMP came along, it was the first time we saw our favorite characters in any form for over a decade, since TOS's cancellation (apart from the cartoon). There was no Next Generation, no DS9, etc. It was tremendously exciting for fans and no surprise to me that the creators of TMP wanted to make it "big" in scale, since we had never had the chance to see it on a big screen. In that sense, it worked for me, and I clearly remember seeing it multiple times during its first run. Also, reviews tended to have far less power in the pre-internet world. With print media, the review often followed far after the film's release and forced the viewer to make his or her own opinion before reading The Chicago Sun-Times or in my case, The Milwaukee Journal. It was a different time. That was a good thing about the "old days" IMO. See the film and make up your own mind; you just might like it.
Really? So just because you're a fan of something (in this case, Trek), you can't criticize it? Or there's only a certain amount you can criticize?
Trek has been with me since I was 7 years old (35 now) and is indispensable in my life. My first Trek movie in a theater was The Voyage Home, but I will always tell you it is the most overrated Trek movie out there and isn't really Trek in the end. I will also tell you The Final Frontier and Nemesis are terrible pieces of crap and can list everything I find wrong with them. However, that doesn't mean I don't own them (had the single and double discs DVD's and currently have the BD's on the shelf...along with the expanded soundtracks). Being a fan is taking the good and the bad, realizing nothing is perfect and objectively understanding it's faults.
The people who watch one bad episode/movie and then abandon everything else are not fans.
I truly understand your point, but I have a slightly different perspective of that shuttle trip to the new Enterprise. Seeing that on a huge movie screen in 1979 was really something. My family had watched Star Trek on TV for years, both original run and in syndication, and at that time, of course there had been no big screen version of Star Trek and our TV was 15 inches or something. We saw TMP at a huge Fox theater (which, unfortunately was later split into three small theaters and is now a furniture store). When the shuttle turned, facing the Enterprise, we all had tears streaming down our faces. On that huge screen - for the first time - there was the Enterprise looking as big and proud as it would actually look in space. There was also the element of seeing the cast together again after 10 years. It had an emotional impact that can't really be recaptured now because we are used to seeing The Enterprise at the movies and TMP is now just one of many ST films and viewed side by side on home screens lessens the impact even more. I think Wise knew it would have that impact on fans at the time; it was a celebration of sorts. And, yes, that particular passage of music is extraordinary and is my favorite portion of that score. I do consider myself fortunate that I was able to see that movie on a really huge screen when it was first released.
That scene is my favourite scene from the first film, i'd have it even longer, It's scenes like that which make the first film so epic, strip that scene out and you lose those epic qualities. Jerry Goldsmith along with John Williams was the master movie composer.
I don't understand modern film's obsession to get from point A to point B so quickly, it's like audience attention spans are zero these days, one of the things i don't like about the new reboot Star Trek films is the actual Enterprise, too brightly lit and it's missing something, don't know what but i just don't get the feeling of scale that i got when i watched the fly by in Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
Come on Paramount, get your act together, we want the directors cut and we wanted it yesterday.
I can't speak for Tom but I've seen plenty of times where it seems like the only thing that some fans can do is criticize. They might like plenty of things about a movie/series/whatever but they never talk about that stuff, they just continually harp on what they don't like about it. That's not to say that people should only mention the good but at a certain point, whining about the bad seems to be all that they can do or they seem to get more pleasure from complaining than talking about what they like.
To clarify, I'm talking about fandom in general and not a specific group of fans or any person here.
Not going to argue that, Travis. Some people are only happy when they're complaining. I do fall into that camp some times, but I can admit which parts of ST IV I like (the music) and ST V (okay...this is hard for me...). But really, I'm coming back to this: some movies or episodes in a canon are not good and have no redeeming qualities. I can't think of one for ST V...but that's just me.
I do like a good rant on occasion, nothing beats a midnight whine, i like red.
I find Jerry Goldsmith's music score to be the best thing about Star Trek V, it's certainly one redeeming quality.
Bill Hunt at The Digital Bits posted information this morning about Star Trek The Compendium blu ray set...
Basically a repackage on 2009 Trek, but the full SE of Into Darkness that we did not get. It's out in September.
Also note that there will be a rebate for those who previously purchased the films. ALSO, that Bill let Paramount HV know that fans and consumers WANT the older films done right on blu ray and that the director's Cuts are released as well!!
Check it out the story and press release on The Compendium here:
Along TMP discussion, nice article about Persis here..
"For the record, the standard 2.35:1 theatrical edition and 3D versions of Star Trek Into Darkness are not included in this set."Oh well, I guess we can't have everything.
Thanks Osato! I'm glad to read that Bill Hunt brought up our desires for the original films remastered and as DC's. I hope as they decide to do it!And the IMAX version of Into Darkness is not in 3D.
Count me as another fan of the shuttle-around-the-Enterprise sequence in TMP. Seeing that on the big screen back in '79 was just awesome for the 14-year-old that I was at the time. It's still one of my favorite scenes - I'm glad Wise didn't decide to trim that. Although, to be honest, I wonder how much say Wise really had with everything on the DE. I'm sure he had a good bit of input, but to me, it still seems like Mike Matessino had some influence as there are some edit choices I don't care for at all, but were minor things that were supposedly the ire of many members of trek forums for years. Things as innocent as Kirk's "oh my god" after the transporter accident - for some reason, that was supposedly an audience laughter inducing moment - but the several times I saw it in the theater, we were dead silent as it was a reinforcement of the horror Kirk felt at that moment as he lost two crew members to transporter mutilation right before his eyes... why wouldn't that be appropriate - and why would that cause laughter? That got cut in the DE. Kirk's extra "Viewer off!" at a stunned Uhura was also, I felt, appropriate for that scene - but also seemed silly to some fans in the trek forums - also cut. Things like that make the DE seem more like a hurt fanboy cut to me - at least in some areas - and is why I still prefer the theatrical edit over the DE. On the other hand, other scenes that were added in later in the movie for the DE do seem to have Wise's eye in that they fit better with the story flow than the hack job of the SLV - they reinforce the ideas that get lost in the theatrical cut.
And, BTW, the unfinished set of Kirk leaving the air-dock in the SLV was most definitely visible in the 4x3 frame. For years, that version on VHS was all I had to look at, and the fact that Kirk's space suit is totally different later on doesn't help either. Those few sequences that were so obviously from the aborted "memory wall" scene (which I didn't know about until years later) never should have been included.
Extremely frustrated by the Bits announcement. All I want is Star Trek Into Darkness as I saw it in theaters nine times, which was with the shifting IMAX ratios and in 3D. Really don't think that's asking too much. I sent the following letter to Paramount - I'd encourage all 3D fans here to send their thoughts as well:Hi Paramount. I'm writing to express my frustration and disappointment with your newly announced "Star Trek Compendium" edition of Star Trek Into Darkness. Star Trek Into Darkness was my favorite movie of 2013, and I saw it nine times in IMAX 3D theaters. I was extremely disappointed when the Blu-ray came out last year without the IMAX version, and with the bonus features split up between retailer exclusives so that if I wanted all the content, I'd have had to purchase it three times. (I decided against purchasing it at all, which bothered me to do, but I think it was unfair to do that to your customers and I decided I couldn't support that.) Anyhow, with today's announcement on The Digital Bits website, it seemed like a wrong had finally been righted...until I read the fine print. Though Star Trek Into Darkness was created and conceived for IMAX 3D, you've elected not to give that version a release on Blu-ray. All I want is the movie as I saw it in theaters, as the filmmakers intended, as it was originally released. That's in IMAX with shifting aspect ratios, and in 3D. I urge you to reconsider and include the IMAX 3D version on this release. I just want the version of the movie I saw and fell in love with in theaters. That's all, no more, no less. The IMAX 3D version already exists in a digital form, so it shouldn't require much trouble to be converted into a Blu-ray format. Respectfully,Josh Steinberg