Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far (1 Viewer)

[Camper]

a few notes......

6 of the 12 added minutes from the TMP SLV were incorporated into the DC.
The SLV is an official Paramount version of the movie---not a bootleg---so I feel it deserves a Blu-ray even though I think it's waaay too padded.

Meyer when he recorded the commentary for the Blu-ray ( the one with the other person) thought he was watching the Director's cut. He is talking and at one point where there was supposed to be an added DC scene---he stops talking and says, "why is it this version?", and then he resumes commenting.

So as far as he knew when they lined him up to record the new Blu-ray commentary---he was expecting they would use the Director's cut. Listen to it--it's sad and embarrassing that they didn't even tell him which version he was watching/they were bringing to Blu-ray.

The clunky music cues from the ABC-TV version of TWOK were fixed for the 2001 Director's Cut. The alternate turbo-lift scene was never an official version released by Paramount, but if they don't show it by branching--they should at least include it as an extra. No excuse they already didn't do that. It's available for all to see on youtube--why wouldn't they include it as an extra on the Blu-ray set. Ditto for the two deleted scenes also available on youtube.

The cuts from TWOK and TUC that were added back in were the final preferred cuts of Meyer before the studio forced him to cut out a further 3 and 1/2 minutes from both. He made the choices back in 1985 as to what ABC should edit back in and the 1992 video release of TUC was likewise his preferred version.

I'm glad they got the theatrical of those movie for the folks who prefer them, but the others deserve to be included since Meyer prefers those versions.
He's not a complainer who cries that they ruined his movie and he doesn't disavow them, but that doesn't mean he prefers the theatrical cuts. He has stated that director's cuts are sometimes revisionist and director's shouldn't be revisionist about their work years later----but the longer versions of TWOK and TUC are not revisionist cuts---they are the cuts he preferred in 1982 and 1991.

In any event, the color mistake on TWOK and the overuse of DNR on TUC are reasons enough to get new versions of those with the mistakes corrected and all cuts included.

Little known fact was that ABC TV for the 1987-88 season had plans to have Nimoy suggest added footage for TSFS to fill a 2 and 1/2 hour time slot, (as they had done for Treks 1 and 2), but the NFL strike forced ABC to begin airing their winter '88 movies schedule in fall '87---so instead with no time for any planning and no time to locate the cut footage to CUT OUT 9 minutes and air it in a 2 hour time slot.
And of course we never got to see any of the cut footage.

 

[Dave H]

Depends how susceptible you are to the problems, i think they are very bad particularly the sixth film.

Pretty sure the 6th film came from a 1080i master and not only does it have very bad DNR and edge enhancement but lots of aliasing, truly one of the worst blu ray releases currently in the marketplace.

Agreed, they look very processed and nothing like film.

 

[Dave H]

I see some people complain about the blue push in II, but I just watched this recently on my pro calibrated projector and didn't see where there was an issue.

I think the DVD pushed red too much and some were just used to it.

 

[Kevin EK]

Dave, I agree that the DVD was a bit reddish. But I'm watching on a professionally calibrated 65" and I'm seeing a blue-tinged Enterprise. On the same set, the other Trek movies do not offer me a blue-tinged Enterprise. Hence, I must conclude via Occam's Razor - there's a bit too much blue here...

 

[Camper]

On the Blu-ray the Regula planetoid is straight up blue. Just plain wrong. Trekcore has comparison screencaps and it's not a minor difference----it's startling. All the vintage material from 1982---calendars, Making of materials, magazine articles clearly showed regula as reddish-brown back then----so clearly the new color timing is way off.
If it's been reddish-brown in every medium since 1982 and then for the 2009 Blu-ray for the first time it appears as blue it's really not debatable.
I know a lot of people want to say maybe they "finally got it right", but that's wishful thinking. In 1982 they didn't want the regula planetoid to look like Earth's moon.

As for the music cues for the added scenes in Wrath of Khan---only one of the 8 added scenes had ANY score at all. That was Kirk mentioning to Spock about David in the Jefffreys tube. The other 7 are in scenes that don't have any music score. Not sure about the turbo-lift scene but that isn't part of the Director's cut anyway.

So all they had to adjust for the DC is the one 15 second bit of music. Perhaps that is why Meyers chose those scenes to cut in 1982 and reinsert in 1985----the fact that they wouldn't need to bring back Horner for last minute changes to the score.

Here's a comparison link between the Blu-ray and the DVD-----which was the same as the previous VHS, Beta and laserdisc versions..


http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=246712

 

[Kevin EK]

I believe there are more bits of scoring fun in the ABC airing of Trek II - the one specific that I remember is during the trip toward the Nebula, as Spock tells Saavik "Remind me to discuss with you the human ego".

To be fair, there would never have been a need to bring either Jerry Goldsmith or James Horner back in the event of a different edit of their respective movies. In both cases, existing cues were repurposed to cover the newly re-inserted material.

And we should be fair about Paramount's treatment of TMP. Frankly, Robert Wise wasn't completely happy with the theatrical cut, as he was never able to finish it and things like the sound mix were never done correctly. When Paramount allowed the edited material to be piled back into the movie to allow for a longer TV timeslot (meaning: more commercials possible), Wise was even less happy. It is an acknowledged Paramount version as Camper says, but I wouldn't call it the "official" version of the movie. It was released because a lot of Trek fans were interested in seeing the deleted material, and in an age before DVDs, that was the only way to do so short of telling the fans to borrow a tape of the TV airing (as many did anyway.)

I hadn't noticed Meyer having an issue with the version of Star Trek II he was seeing for his 2009 commentary with Manny Coto. I listened through that commentary but missed that moment. Frankly, a lot of what I was hearing was repetitive of what he'd said in the earlier commentary, so I probably just tuned out at one point, and that's when he did it. It's strange that he would be surprised as to what version was on the Blu-ray since they made a point of the restoration and he was making comments about it at the time. Of course, I'm also surprised that Meyer himself didn't notice that his own movie had been blue-shifted.

The scene Camper is likely referring to that Meyer had wanted back in was the one that establishes Peter Preston's family relationship to Scotty. In Meyer's book "The View From the Bridge", he describes that as being the only thing he really wanted to have in the movie but was unable to get through for the theatrical release. In his book, he says that when he did what he called "the television and VHS cuts... I got to reinsert midshipman Preston to his rightful place in the plot but otherwise made no particular alterations." I hadn't heard about an issue about 3 1/2 minutes needing to be cut from Trek II, but I am aware of the huge battle Meyer had with Paramount about adding that coda on the Genesis Planet. And Meyer repeats his famous statement in his book about longer cuts not necessarily being better than the theatrical versions. I do recall him saying something in the early 90s about how ABC let him throw everything he could think of back into Star Trek II for the TV airing but that he didn't feel that all of it necessarily improved the movie.

Meyer's book also discusses the editing of Star Trek VI. He doesn't get into the whole "Colonel West" subplot, but he says that he was essentially happy with the movie as it was released theatrically. He makes no mention of needing to lose 3 1/2 minutes, but he does talk about a bitter fight that developed between him and Nimoy over the exact editing of the movie's final reel. He talks about the minimal adjustments he made for the DVD release (one shot of Scotty and the cut-ins of the conspirator's faces during the mind meld) and says that they were so minor that he asked that Paramount NOT refer to this as a "Director's Cut".

To be clear, it's possible that Meyer at some point said that he preferred the longer cut of Trek VI, but I've honestly never heard that from him. He did say he had issues with the theatrical cut of Star Trek II, but the key point had to do with how you leave Spock's situation.

I'd personally rather see Meyer get to direct the next Trek movie and bring his expertise to it than have him spend time trying to find trims from the older movies. And it isn't because I don't like deleted scenes - I'd be happy to see whatever they wanted to show. But I'm also aware that nine out of ten times, those scenes don't hold up to scrutiny. They were cut for a reason. I spent years wondering what the opening reel of Escape From New York looked like, as I was told it was crucial to the movie. Then I saw it on the SE DVD and said "meh". As Kurt Russell says about it in the commentary - "Good cut!" I also spent years wondering what the rest of the Richard Donner footage on Superman II looked like, particularly as the Brando scenes were crucial to playing out the plot from the first movie. Then I saw that footage on the DVD and mostly said "meh". (I concluded that had Donner not been fired, he would have needed to reshoot a fair amount of his footage. Further, the Brando footage desperately needed the post-production ADR that Brando always did to perfect his work.) I know that people would like to see the rest of the deleted footage from the Trek movies presented in an easily obtainable way on DVD, but it just seems that after over 30 years of VHS, laserdisc, DVD and Blu-ray releases, we've pretty much seen all the footage they're going to show us. I would be very happy to be wrong about this.

 

[Osato]

Wrath of Khan podcast...

http://trekmovie.com/2014/06/20/new-mission-log-podcast-star-trek-ii-the-wrath-of-khan/

 

[Osato]

Is this listing just for a price break on TWOK blu ray? Very strange...

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-II-Wrath-Blu-ray/dp/B00K12K8G8/ref=sr_1_1_bnp_1_blu?ie=UTF8&qid=1403376381&sr=8-1&keywords=star+trek+the+wrath+of+khan+blu+ray

 

[Camper]

I have lucky enough to go to the UCLA film school and watch the Black and white work-print of Wrath of Khan.

What a hugely fascinating and enjoyable experience.

It starts with the simulator sequence and ends when Spock leaves the bridge to save the ship.
This indicates this particular workprint was trimmed of the Spock death to keep who ever was looking at the work-print form spilling the ending.
It contains no new score and the FX footage in it are the reuses of footage from TMP. All the voice-overs are just being read by script persons.

No ADR has been done so there are lots of mispronunciations and alternate line readings.

The performances of Butrick, Besch, Koenig were all very weak compared to the final edit--so kudos to Meyer for working wonders in ADR with coaching on what he wanted for the performances!

The cut contains about 9 minutes of footage not in either the theatrical or the DC. It also is missing some things that are from either of the other two version amounting to 3 minutes.

The work-print contained (besides the 3 minutes I just mentioned) every single cut bit from the script that anybody can read at Trekcore or other places online (except of course for the last 20 minutes which have been cut from the work-print they donated to UCLA.

So if anybody says, "It wasn't filmed" or "the footage is lost"--------they are wrong. It was shot and if Paramount wants to get it I sure a billion dollar corporation is as resourceful as an aging fan like myself.

What's clear is that they knew it needed to be shorter than the full (what would have been) 130 minute version, but they weren't sure what needed to go.

What surprisingly was left out of the workprint is.........

Khan--On Earth 200 years ago I was a prince...."
Carol--"This, it took the Starfllet corp of engineers months in spacesuits to....."
Spock--"As a teacher on a training mission, I am content to command..."

So clearly the things they cut were not black and white good vs bad material---since I consider those lines real good.
I think they clearly were under some pressure not to make it too long (since TMP was considered too long)
So Meyer was wrestling with parts of HIS re-wriiten script to cut.

Shatner balked at the first version of the Kirk/David fight where David gets the upper hand and Carol saves him by revealing his true parentage to ALL present including KIRK.

Shatner took that to Bennett and whoever else would listen and Meyer reluctantly reshot the fight and then trimmed all mentions of that portion for the remainder of the movie--about 5 more cuts had to made later to eliminate references to the revelation.

So Meyer saved about 5 minutes right there. They previewed the movie in early May 1982 in Kansas City and the audience loved it until Spock's death was apparently final.

So the studio had Bennett--against Meyer's wishes ---film the Tube on Genesis coda. that was when they also cut the last 3 1/2 minutes that comprise the DC.

If you listen to his commentary from the 2 disc DVD he mentions the little additions that were cut that he thought added to the story. I agree the cut he most missed was the Preston/Scotty portion which created a WTF? moment when Scott seems to lose it over this one (of many) injured cadets.
3 of the other bits in Kirk's appt., the operating room after Scott leaves and the McCoy/Spock debate extension all are classic Dee Kelley material and thankfully restored. There is no such thing as too much McCoy in my book!

I stand corrected--Kevin is right--the "human Ego" exchange also had music in it which they fixed for the DC vs. the ABC version.

I love that addition because it you watch the movie Saavik is brushed aside in the last 30 minutes--most of her lines are cut and she nearly disappears. That was the last moment where Spock and her have a mentor-father/student-daughter exchange.

The only change Meyer was ever bitter about was the added coffin footage, but he clearly liked a fair amount of what they made him cut---it was his script after all---albeit un-credited.

I desperately wish Paramount would go to UCLA and make a copy of the workprint and make that available on the next release--either in it's entirety or just to pull out the deleted scenes. That is if they can't or won't go the trouble of digging out the actual film footage. All you have to do is call and UCLA makes it available (for a donation to the film school) to view. Certainly that would only take a minor effort on Paramount's part.

Lastly Meyer recounts in a couple of interviews that Paramount really was on him to cut the Kirk/David reconciliation scene after the funeral. He held his ground and said "over my dead body" and they gave in. So he wasn't being asked to cut out crap stuff. Because that's a great scene--he was being pressured to make the movie shorter and so he did.

 

[Camper]

Is this listing just for a price break on TWOK blu ray? Very strange...

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-II-Wrath-Blu-ray/dp/B00K12K8G8/ref=sr_1_1_bnp_1_blu?ie=UTF8&qid=1403376381&sr=8-1&keywords=star+trek+the+wrath+of+khan+blu+ray

No it's just another release of the existing version with a new SKU. It may also have new packaging but now with less than 10 days till release---they still haven't released the cover art.

I am praying it's another attempt to clear existing invertories to make way for a proper release in 2016---I never stop hoping. It's My holy grail!!

 

[Cinescott]

For me, the Wise cut of TMP is the "holy grail" of unreleased material on Blu-ray. I recently watched the DVD and it does flow better than the theatrical cut, although as has been discussed, I am glad the 1979 version is out there.

I am surprised that TMP only rates 45% on Rotten Tomatoes. It has its flaws, yes, but is so much better than films that are scored higher on the same scale. It might be this negative perception that keeps Paramount from investing anything further in it, but I think that's a mistake, since if any Trek movie was made for Blu-ray, it's TMP. The pacing is slow, yes, but that fosters further appreciation of the visuals and outstanding score by Jerry Goldsmith. It's pretty obvious that Wise and the producers were attempting a "2001" version of TMP, and in many ways they succeed.

Of all the "original cast" films, TMP and Khan are the only two that interest me, mainly because they are excellent in their own ways. TMP was a tonal departure from the TV series, but it works for me, in the sense that it added a whole new scale of grandeur to the material. Khan (ST II) went back to the original formula and did it better than any other film before or since, and on a much smaller budget. Two masterful movies I find very difficult to compare.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

And really the only reason the budget figures are so high for TMP is that the folded TV Series costs and I presume costs of the abandoned Paramount TV network were charged to TMPs budget

 

[Worth]

I kind of admire the first film for its ambition, but it's almost impossible to believe it was directed by a former editor. There are so many moments that just feel like filler. What is it - 4 or 5 minutes of screen time devoted to just getting to the Enterprise by shuttle. Whatever Goldsmith was paid for that score, it wasn't enough. Strip the film of the music and I think much of it would be nearly unwatchable.

 

[Osato]

I have lucky enough to go to the UCLA film school and watch the Black and white work-print of Wrath of Khan.

What a hugely fascinating and enjoyable experience.

It starts with the simulator sequence and ends when Spock leaves the bridge to save the ship.
This indicates this particular workprint was trimmed of the Spock death to keep who ever was looking at the work-print form spilling the ending.
It contains no new score and the FX footage in it are the reuses of footage from TMP. All the voice-overs are just being read by script persons.

No ADR has been done so there are lots of mispronunciations and alternate line readings.

The performances of Butrick, Besch, Koenig were all very weak compared to the final edit--so kudos to Meyer for working wonders in ADR with coaching on what he wanted for the performances!

The cut contains about 9 minutes of footage not in either the theatrical or the DC. It also is missing some things that are from either of the other two version amounting to 3 minutes.

The work-print contained (besides the 3 minutes I just mentioned) every single cut bit from the script that anybody can read at Trekcore or other places online (except of course for the last 20 minutes which have been cut from the work-print they donated to UCLA.

So if anybody says, "It wasn't filmed" or "the footage is lost"--------they are wrong. It was shot and if Paramount wants to get it I sure a billion dollar corporation is as resourceful as an aging fan like myself.

What's clear is that they knew it needed to be shorter than the full (what would have been) 130 minute version, but they weren't sure what needed to go.

What surprisingly was left out of the workprint is.........

Khan--On Earth 200 years ago I was a prince...."
Carol--"This, it took the Starfllet corp of engineers months in spacesuits to....."
Spock--"As a teacher on a training mission, I am content to command..."

So clearly the things they cut were not black and white good vs bad material---since I consider those lines real good.
I think they clearly were under some pressure not to make it too long (since TMP was considered too long)
So Meyer was wrestling with parts of HIS re-wriiten script to cut.

Shatner balked at the first version of the Kirk/David fight where David gets the upper hand and Carol saves him by revealing his true parentage to ALL present including KIRK.

Shatner took that to Bennett and whoever else would listen and Meyer reluctantly reshot the fight and then trimmed all mentions of that portion for the remainder of the movie--about 5 more cuts had to made later to eliminate references to the revelation.

So Meyer saved about 5 minutes right there. They previewed the movie in early May 1982 in Kansas City and the audience loved it until Spock's death was apparently final.

So the studio had Bennett--against Meyer's wishes ---film the Tube on Genesis coda. that was when they also cut the last 3 1/2 minutes that comprise the DC.

If you listen to his commentary from the 2 disc DVD he mentions the little additions that were cut that he thought added to the story. I agree the cut he most missed was the Preston/Scotty portion which created a WTF? moment when Scott seems to lose it over this one (of many) injured cadets.
3 of the other bits in Kirk's appt., the operating room after Scott leaves and the McCoy/Spock debate extension all are classic Dee Kelley material and thankfully restored. There is no such thing as too much McCoy in my book!

I stand corrected--Kevin is right--the "human Ego" exchange also had music in it which they fixed for the DC vs. the ABC version.

I love that addition because it you watch the movie Saavik is brushed aside in the last 30 minutes--most of her lines are cut and she nearly disappears. That was the last moment where Spock and her have a mentor-father/student-daughter exchange.

The only change Meyer was ever bitter about was the added coffin footage, but he clearly liked a fair amount of what they made him cut---it was his script after all---albeit un-credited.

I desperately wish Paramount would go to UCLA and make a copy of the workprint and make that available on the next release--either in it's entirety or just to pull out the deleted scenes. That is if they can't or won't go the trouble of digging ut the actual film footage. All you have to do is call and UCLA makes it available (for a donation to the film school) to view. Certainly that would only take a minor effort on Paramount's part.

Lastly Meyer recounts in a couple of interviews that Paramount really was on him to cut the Kirk/David reconciliation scene after the funeral. He held his ground and said "over my dead body" and they gave in. So he wasn't being asked to cut out crap stuff. Because that's a great scene--he was being pressured to make the movie shorter and so he did.

Wow thank you so much for the recap on the work print! I'd love to see this as well.

The Wrath of Khan was my introduction to Star Trek in 1982. It's one of my favorite films of all time.

 

[Camper]

I kind of admire the first film for its ambition, but it's almost impossible to believe it was directed by a former editor. There are so many moments that just feel like filler. What is it - 4 or 5 minutes of screen time devoted to just getting to the Enterprise by shuttle. Whatever Goldsmith was paid for that score, it wasn't enough. Strip the film of the music and I think much of it would be nearly unwatchable.

That was the problem---they had zero time to edit the movie. It was more difficult to do a careful edit of the FX sequences which Paramount had paid a fortune for---- than it was for cutting out the character moments--so that's what they did---they just rushed cutting out the stuff including "Spock cries" !!

Really the whole point of the movie was Spock's journey from wanting total logic to accepting himself as a being from two worlds AND THEY CUT THAT OUT.

 

[Osato]

For me, the Wise cut of TMP is the "holy grail" of unreleased material on Blu-ray. I recently watched the DVD and it does flow better than the theatrical cut, although as has been discussed, I am glad the 1979 version is out there.

I am surprised that TMP only rates 45% on Rotten Tomatoes. It has its flaws, yes, but is so much better than films that are scored higher on the same scale. It might be this negative perception that keeps Paramount from investing anything further in it, but I think that's a mistake, since if any Trek movie was made for Blu-ray, it's TMP. The pacing is slow, yes, but that fosters further appreciation of the visuals and outstanding score by Jerry Goldsmith. It's pretty obvious that Wise and the producers were attempting a "2001" version of TMP, and in many ways they succeed.

Of all the "original cast" films, TMP and Khan are the only two that interest me, mainly because they are excellent in their own ways. TMP was a tonal departure from the TV series, but it works for me, in the sense that it added a whole new scale of grandeur to the material. Khan (ST II) went back to the original formula and did it better than any other film before or since, and on a much smaller budget. Two masterful movies I find very difficult to compare.

I think the Wise Director's Cut of TMP is much better as well. I hope it comes to blu ray in 2016... or sooner...

 

[Camper]

Wow thank you so much for the recap on the work print! I'd love to see this as well.

The Wrath of Khan was my introduction to Star Trek in 1982. It's one of my favorite films of all time.

Live in California? I live in Fla, but I have two nephews who live in San Diego and they set it up for me after I called the school and got a really annoying guy who said, "We're not a theater --you can't just come here and watch movies!"

LOL. You have to be a student at the school or as I found out later--make a donation to the film school--which my nephews did. I had been planning to visit them and it was just perfect timing where they set it up for me back in 2012.

But it was so neat to see what I had read about since 1982--only a 30 year wait.

Oddly my phone recorded the sound for the work-print--I must have pocket recorded it by accident.

So now all my ringtones are cut scenes from Wrath of Khan. My wife's is Sulu saying "I've looked forward to that for a long time!"---a line from the cut scene where he was promoted to captain of the excelsior.

My boss is Khan saying, "Plague upon you ALL!"--which is from when he mention Marla Mcgivers by name and is overcome by grief.

My mom in law's is David saying, "You dumb b**tard--WE WERE STILL THERE!" ---which he says to Kirk when he thinks Kirk killed the crew of the space station. So when she calls me--it saves her time in saying something bad. LOL


What's absolutely hilarious is that for the stock FX footage from TMP that they re-use in Khan---they added really hokey stock western music. Laugh out loud funny. So the enterprise is leaving dock and western "round-up" footage is playing really loud. I think Meyer told them he wanted an adventurous score for the temp music and they thought western adventure!

It really takes Roddenberry's "wagon train to the stars" idea to it's horrible limit !!

 

[Nelson Au]

Perhaps Kevin can comment, but whatever happened to the early days of the HTF when an actual Paramount executive actually was a member and posted comments and answers. He was very very gracious and gave some great info on upcoming releases of Star Trek where I remember him most. I recall his name was Martin Blythe. I did a check, it was back on the late 1990's and early 2000's. Perhaps it was a change of his employment or someone made a comment that caused him to not feel welcome. I hope that someone at the studios reads these forums and others and know that there is a demand and pent up desire for Star Trek-The Motion Picture Directors Cut to finally see a release in high definition. While our numbers may be small because the Home Theater crowd is a limited size, then there is a sizable Star Trek fan base, but potentially limited too, they sure must know we really want to see this film and the other Star Trek films. The UCLA print of Star Trek 2 is cool and thanks for the recap. For me, I would rather see the Wise cut be funded and prepared for releases than the UCLA print. I bet that film is like the Star Trek blooper reel. It will never be sanctioned for release while the cast is still around or Meyer is still around. Though that reason by now may not be a realistic reason given the bloopers are all over YouTube. If the studio wants to be careful about where to spend on the Star Trek library for the next restoration or remastering, I can see they might fear the first film won't sell. It's unfortunate one bad experience of a Star Trek movie has still lasting effects. Given the number of fans who appreciate the film now must tell them it's a desirable effort. I'll take a $100 box set of Star Trek The Motion Picture over a free copy of Into Darkness.

 

[Camper]

I think the objection to bloopers was that it made people in them the butt of scorn or made them look unprofessional. The work-print is no different than any other legit version of the movie. Most of the takes ended up being in the movie and it does not contain flubs.

It just is unfinished--which most deleted scenes sections of movies are comprised of--unfinished FX, no ambient sound added, no ADR etc.

Several movies have included work-prints in their Blu-ray releases haven't they?

In any case they could extract the deleted scenes and just put them in separately as an extra. I don't think Paramount is generous enough to include an entire alternate version of the movie.

 

[Nelson Au]

I certainly would not pass up a release that includes the UCLA film!