Star Trek DS9 on Blu-Ray -- Remain Ever Hopeful Thread (1 Viewer)

[smithbrad]

Sure it will cost less, but it also won't provide the syndication value of the complete series down the road. In the long term the HD syndication will cover the costs to remaster it, but it just isn't a high priority to have just yet. CBS has been preparing for this with all they are doing now, but the reality is SD channels still out number HD channels. The closer we get to reversing that the more CBS/Paramount will reap the benefits of all this upfront cost. But that time just isn't here yet. And there is a very good possiblility that the cost to redoing these types of SFX will come down some in 5 years. Compared to the other remastering work being done for other series, TNG is a major increase in cost, more even than TOS.

 

[Jason_V]

Here's a thought that "Bolty" at blu-ray.com had: What if they distilled DS9 into a best of set? He was actually imagining two of those, and is selecting c. 30 episodes for each of these imagined sets. But that might be a bridge too far as well.

I wonder if there's a way to distill down the best of DS9 into a coherent c. 32 episode "miniseries-like" narrative? If it costs c. $5 million to remaster a season of trek, we can see how spending $35 million for the whole seven seasons might be too much for a home video project. But if the cost were c. 1/7th of that just to do the very best of Deep Space Nine, perhaps it would be more financially doable.

I realize, it's highly unlikely, but....

As a completist, I don't like the idea for more than the syndication issue. I don't know if you get even to 32 episodes when you take into account the various arcs, relationships and characters that populate the series.

Just spitballing here, but this set would include the six episode arc at the beginning of S6 and the ten episode arc at the finale. So you're up to 16 episodes already (depending on how you count What You Leave Behind...). Then who is Dukat and Winn and Damar and Rom and Nog and Martok and Gowron? When did Worf arrive on the station? And this new Dax? The Bajoran politics and religion...I see the episodes being completely confusing very quickly.

Now, when the entire series is done, I would certainly be a champion of smaller arcs and mini-series type releases.

 

[benbess]

As a completist, I don't like the idea for more than the syndication issue. I don't know if you get even to 32 episodes when you take into account the various arcs, relationships and characters that populate the series.

Just spitballing here, but this set would include the six episode arc at the beginning of S6 and the ten episode arc at the finale. So you're up to 16 episodes already (depending on how you count What You Leave Behind...). Then who is Dukat and Winn and Damar and Rom and Nog and Martok and Gowron? When did Worf arrive on the station? And this new Dax? The Bajoran politics and religion...I see the episodes being completely confusing very quickly.

Now, when the entire series is done, I would certainly be a champion of smaller arcs and mini-series type releases.

You make some good points. Bolty might be right that you really need c. 60 episodes to do the show some justice.

But, if we select 16 from the last season, I wonder what other 16-20 could be picked from S1-S6 to try to make this work? Perhaps it's impossible. It's very tricky to say the least.

 

[benbess]

The first four seasons of DS9 had a total of 98 episodes. "Bolty" from blu-ray.com has posted his version of boiling that down to 32. I think he did a great job, actually:

I’ve got nothing to do--home alone--so for the fun of it I imagined my theoretical “Best of DS9 Part I box set”

I speculate it would be an 8 disc set with 27 “arc episodes” and 5 stand alone Fan-favorite ‘voted on’ episodes.

Box One would contain highlights of seasons 1-4

My List……..

Episodes number/name/content

1. Emissary part 1--pilot
2. Emissary part 2-- pilot
19. Duet--cardassian war criminal……..my fan choice #1
20. Hands of the Prophets--intro Kai Winn, season 1 ender
21. Homecoming--Bajoran coup trilogy 1,season 2 opener
22. Circle--part 2
23. Siege--part 3
39. Blood Oath--re-intro Kang, Kor and Koloth
40. Maquis part 1--intro of the maquis movement
41. Maquis part 2--
43. Crossover--first “mirror” episode
46. Jem’ Hadar--beginning of the Founders arc, season 2 ender
47. Search part 1--looking for the Jem’Hadar, season 3 opener
48. Search part 2--
51. Second Skin--Cardassian believes kira is his daughter…..my fan choice #2
55. Defiant--Riker returns……..my fan choice #3
60. Heart of Stone--founders trick Odo into professing love for Kira….my fan choice #4
65. Improbable Cause--major precursor to Founder war part 1
67. The Die is Cast--part 2
66. Thru the Looking Glass--part 2 of “mirror” arc (filmed in-between previous two-parter)
72. Adversary--season 3 ender, sets up Founder infiltration of federation.
73. Way of the Warrior part 1--start of Klingon civil war, Worf intro, season 4 opener
74. Way of the Warrior part 2
76. The Visitor--”old Jake” seeks his lost father……….my fan choice #5
79. Starship Down--iconic battle with Jem’ Hadar
80. Little Green Men--classic ferengi comedy episode…..my fan favorite #6
81. Sword of Kahless--part of “original klingons” arc
83. Homefront--founders infiltrate earth part 1
84. Paradise Lost--part 2
86. Return to Grace--key Dukat/Kira episode…..my fan favorite #7
87. Sons of Mogh--farwell to Kurn…..my fan favorite #8
92. Shattered Mirror--”mirror arc” part 3
94. For the Cause--key Maquis episode
96. To the Death--strong Jem’ Hadar episode
98. Broken Link--Odo becomes Human, season 4 ender

So as you can see I didn’t trim my favorites to 5 yet, but there is my outline of a “Best of DS9 Box Set part I”

Part II would be the key/best episodes from seasons 5-7

 

[Jason_V]

You make some good points. Bolty might be right that you really need c. 60 episodes to do the show some justice.

But, if we select 16 from the last season, I wonder what other 16-20 could be picked from S1-S6 to try to make this work? Perhaps it's impossible. It's very tricky to say the least.

I wish I could make my list...but then I'd probably try to make a case for all 173 episodes.

 

[Carabimero]

If there is any ST series which should not be distilled into a best of boxed set, it is DS9, in my opinion. it's one giant episode. That's why it's so hit-and-miss with fans. I happen to think it's the best ST ever put on a screen. Most ST fans I talk to say it's their least favorite series. I ask them how many episodes they've seen. Invariably they say, "Not very many."

Too bad. This is a series that deeply rewards complete viewing.

 

[Ockeghem]

Carabimero,Agreed. After TOS, my favorite series of Trek is DS9. This is one series that does not deserve a 'best of' treatment in my opinion as well.

 

[Sam Favate]

No best-of sets. All or nothing. I'm betting we'll get "all."

 

[Josh Steinberg]

On one hand, I'm not holding my breath for a DS9 BD release to start this year, or even early next year...

...on the other hand, I can't imagine CBS/Paramount sitting on it. I think at the very least, it'll get upgraded to HD for future streaming. Disc releases seem to be slowing down, but I think "Star Trek" is one of those brands that sells pretty well, so I can't imagine them not testing the waters with at least season one, assuming they do the HD work.

When DS9 first aired, I saw the first and second seasons, and I kinda lost touch with the show after that (barring the occasional episode, like "Trials and Tribble-ations"). Was growing up, moved to a house that didn't have a roof antenna, and that was it with broadcast TV. I keep meaning to finally watch it, and over the past few years I've slowly worked my way through the first season and a half. With fresh eyes, I still don't love it like I love TOS or TNG, but I enjoy it.. it's one of those things where, when I'm watching it, I get into it, but when it ends and I'm not thinking about it, I forget that I enjoyed it as much as I do. I also really enjoyed the whole "we're moving through space on an adventure" thing about TOS and TNG, so the idea of a Star Trek show that mostly stays in one place is a little dull to me. (And yes, I know how silly that sounds objectively, since we were still on the Enterprise every single week with TOS/TNG, on DS9 we're on the same station, but it feels different somehow.)

I think this is one show where, if they redid it in HD, I'd probably find myself hooked. The quality of the currently available SD DVDs (and Netflix streams), at least of the first two seasons, left a little to be desired.

Basically, I wanna like it more than I do, I wanna fall in love with it. Maybe one day.

("Voyager" is the one that I don't think I'll ever like. I watched the first episode of that when it premiered, and thought that was all I needed. It's a personal opinion and maybe a silly one, but the plot of "We're lost, how do we find our way home" I find incredibly boring, whether it's in a movie or TV series or book... so the idea of an unending journey where it would be years and years of being lost and not knowing how to get home, I just didn't think I could take it.)

 

[Jason_V]

Josh: Seasons 1 and 2 are the weakest of the entire series. They have some good stuff in them (Emissary, Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets, Crossover, The Maquis, etc.) but a lot is just weak. Stick with it until season 3. It gets a lot better.

 

[benbess]

Josh: Seasons 1 and 2 are the weakest of the entire series. They have some good stuff in them (Emissary, Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets, Crossover, The Maquis, etc.) but a lot is just weak. Stick with it until season 3. It gets a lot better.

This is why I think a "best of" could work, and would be better than nothing. Even fans concede that the first two seasons, while having some essential episodes, are weak. And, like all Trek and all television shows, there are weak episodes every season. But, the number of weak links drops seemingly each season, until we get the best conclusion of any of the Star Trek shows imho.

Anyway, this is why a generous selection, maybe 60-80 episodes, could work and would be better than not having DS9 in HD at all.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

This is why I think a "best of" could work, and would be better than nothing. Even fans concede that the first two seasons, while having some essential episodes, are weak. And, like all Trek and all television shows, there are weak episodes every season. But, the number of weak links drops seemingly each season, until we get the best conclusion of any of the Star Trek shows imho.

Anyway, this is why a generous selection, maybe 60-80 episodes, could work and would be better than not having DS9 in HD at all.

Just like having that butchered season one of WKRP on DVD was better than nothing, right?

Do it right, or not at all. I'd rather see nothing than a half-assed attempt, which is what a so-called "best of" would be. No one agrees on what the "best" is, with the exception of a very few episodes, so virtually everyone would be pissed off, very few would buy the sets, and DS9 would still be essentially unreleased.

 

[Harry-N]

Yep. It should be all or nothing. If they do a half-assed job, people will stick with their complete DVDs. Do the whole series, and the Trek fans out there will upgrade.

I only tolerated DS9 when it was first aired. I stuck with it all the way, and enjoyed the conclusion, but through the whole run, save for about a dozen or so episodes, it was on concurrently with either TNG or VOY. For a working adult, following these around the weekly schedule with funky airtimes on stations that moved them around willy-nilly, made it difficult to really get into the series.

I religiously taped all of them on VHS - they were new TREK and I knew I'd want to see them again some day (never forseeing the purchase of whole seasons on DVD). As it turned out, I never viewed a single tape I made of DS9, and instead reacquainted myself with the series via DVD.

I hate the way they look on DVD on today's HDTVs, but having them all is better than nothing. I can tell those of you who are looking at early seasons that the series does get a little better looking in later years - still not great, but better than those first two. I'd love to have CBS upgrade these to HD for disc release.

Harry

 

[Jason_V]

This is why I think a "best of" could work, and would be better than nothing. Even fans concede that the first two seasons, while having some essential episodes, are weak. And, like all Trek and all television shows, there are weak episodes every season. But, the number of weak links drops seemingly each season, until we get the best conclusion of any of the Star Trek shows imho.

Anyway, this is why a generous selection, maybe 60-80 episodes, could work and would be better than not having DS9 in HD at all.

Disagree. You could argue (successfully) TNG Season 1 or 2 is worse as a whole than either DS9 S1 or S2, but they were released in their entirety. You can also argue (successfully) that ENT S1 is sub par and at least half of S2 is the same. But, again, they were released in their entirety. Just like Robert said, do it all or don't do any of it. This half-assed stuff doesn't make any sense.

So, let's run down the excellent/essential S1 and S2 episodes (for me):

Emissary (duh)
Past Prologue (reinforces the idea of who Kira used to be and who she is now; becomes important especially in The Final Chapter)
Dax (DC Fontana's return to Trek; lots of history on Trill)
Vortex (big Odo episode, first mention of Changelings)
Progress (always been a favorite of mine)
Duet (duh)
In the Hands of the Prophets (Winn, Bariel, Bajoran politics, beginning of the civil war)
Homecoming/Circle/Siege (you don't include one or two without the third)
Cardassians (Dukat vs. Garak)
Rules of Acquisition (first mention of the Dominion)
Necessary Evil (excellent episode period)
Blood Oath (it's fun to watch)
The Maquis I/II (important for everything that comes later)
The Wire (Garak and Bashir)
Crossover (best post-Mirror, Mirror mirror universe show)
The Collaborator (paves the way for Winn to be Kai and The Final Chapter)
The Jem'Hadar (beginning of the last four seasons)

Does this mean that The Storyteller (first Miles/Bashir adventure) or Captive Pursuit (first Gamma Quadarant aliens) or Playing God (Dax depth) are useless or not important? No. DS9 is more like a novel than any other Trek show. What happens in one episode informs how a character acts in a future episode. You take a piece/chapter out of a book and the whole thing starts making less sense. Start taking 10 or 12 chapters out of a 26 chapter book and you lose the flavor, the essence, the day-to-day connective tissue.

These relationships built over time. You gut that and the emotion is gone.

 

[benbess]

Here's an argument for rebuilding DS9. Look at the top of list of best sellers in blu-ray at Amazon today, out of all of the thousands of blu-ray titles they sell. These are sale prices, of course, but this is for sets that have been available for years:

1. Star Trek: The Original Motion Picture Collection
2. Lone Survivor
3. Star Trek: The Next Generation Motion Picture Collection
4. Star Trek: The Complete Original Series
5. Bond 50
6. Star Trek: Stardate Collection

 

[Jason_V]

The Motion Picture Collection(s) are both about 80% off. TOS is also heavily discounted.

I doubt this helps the case for DS9 in any way, shape or form.

 

[Harry-N]

Thanks for the tip, guys. I already had the original Motion Picture Collection on Blu-ray and wanted/needed the Next Gen set, so this was a perfect time to grab that one.

Harry

 

[Kevin EK]

I was able to get a copy of TNG Season 6 on Blu-ray on Friday.

I believe the review will be done here by Neil - I purchased my copy through a retailer in Los Angeles who somehow got it way early.

Having looked at the materials, I can say the following:

There is no preview of DS9 on Blu-ray. Instead, there are previews on the first disc for "Chain of Command", "Unification", TNG Season 5 on Blu, and for Enterprise on Blu.

The first thirty-minute section of the VAM spends a bunch of time talking about the start of DS9, but all the material is SD, including multiple clips from the pilot. Frankly, this material looked like repurposed VAM from the season 1 release of DS9 on DVD, but I haven't seen that stuff in years. I confess not being that impressed with most of the material in the VAM this time around. There are a few nuggets here and there, but a lot of it is rambling and unfocused to my eye. My understanding is that they went with 90 minutes of material this time since they couldn't put the Director's Roundtable together. The problem is that you're not necessarily getting more from the longer time. They do get into the introduction of Jonathan West to the series and some good comments from him, and there is a brief discussion with Whoopi Goldberg, but she really doesn't say anything we haven't already heard from her in the past. Possibly the most interesting comments come from John DeLancie, but I'm not sure how the fans will take them.

The thing is, there really is an interesting story to be told about the various events around the creation of DS9 and the final years of TNG, but I don't know that we've seen it told yet. The crucial difference was that they went from producing a single TV series to producing two at once, which divided and diluted the amount of attention either series could get. Some of the producing staff moved over to DS9 exclusively while other people were pulling double duty. Some of the crew - like Marvin Rush and the camera/lighting people - were moved over to DS9. Some of the crew - like Michael Westmore - had to supervise twice as many people and twice as much work between the two productions. And of course, when TNG finished in 1994 and Voyager was created to fill that spot, the crews swapped again, with Rush and his people going to Voyager and Jonathan West's group going to DS9 for the rest of its run.

I'll wait to see what VAM they come up with for the final season of TNG. Hopefully they can get into that material and try to glean more of what was happening for that set.

From what I have read, there has still not been any movement toward presenting DS9 on Blu-ray. The comments I've seen indicate that they're still trying to work out how much it would cost, which means we wouldn't likely see anything for some time. Given how long it took for Season 6 to arrive on Blu, my thinking is that we won't see Season 7 til November or December. Presumably by then we'll have an answer as to whether CBS wishes to move ahead with DS9.

 

[joshEH]

All I know is that I'm going to have the biggest case of HD DS9 blue-balls in history when TNG Season 6 comes out next week.

 

[Sam Favate]

The good folks over at Trek Core have compiled all the Deep Space Nine shots from the TNG episode Birthright (Part I) and did a before-and-after comparison. They're trying to get people to share it to get a groundswell of support for DS9 in HD.

From seeing this, it's pretty clear that DS9 is a show that is going to benefit immensely from HD transfers.

Take a look: