Paramount+ Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread (2 Viewers)

[Nelson Au]

I think there is some creative license we have to allow for. It’s a new audience who are not aware of that. That level of detail is what you and I look for. But I can let that slide. It’s still a gold shirt.

Edit, spell check made good, instead of gold.

 

[joshEH]

Kirk and crew were still wearing The Cage-era uniforms in the first episode (Where No Man...), so Pike should not be in a TOS-era uniform. This is basic stuff that the show should have caught.

It still looks like it could be a spin on "The Cage"-era uniforms, simply with some color-variations -- we can't see the entire uniform in that Pike-shot, like the collar, for example:

Don't forget that during the TNG/DS9/VOY era, Starfleet canonically switched duty-uniform designs every few years or so, which means that between 2254 and 2265, Starfleet could've easily decided to experiment with multicolor variations for a time aboard certain ships between "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before," and then went back to the old styles before switching things over again in 2266.

Or else what we saw in WNMHGB was confined to the Enterprise alone -- we have exactly zero canonical evidence from TOS about the uniform-codes aboard other Starfleet vessels, and we likewise also know that ship-insignias were unique as well during the 5YM era, so this could be a similar thing.

 

[Nelson Au]

Josh, the guy to Pike’s right in that shot could be a certain Vulcan. He’s got the blue tunic.

About the uniforms during TOS, I just remembered that during Charlie X, the crew of the Antares wore the Pike era uniforms. Of course we know why, that the budget strapped series reused what they had to save money they did not have.

 

[joshEH]

Josh, the guy to Pike’s right in that shot could be a certain Vulcan. He’s got the blue tunic.

About the uniforms during TOS, I just remembered that during Charlie X, the crew of the Antares wore the Pike era uniforms. Of course we know why, that the budget strapped series reused what they had to save money they did not have.

Good point. And as I've said before, they're rebooting the look of the entire thing, so although they could have had the original, 1964 "The Cage" uniforms, it's simply not the intent of the creators. What we're seeing is Discovery's version of Pike-era garb. The two 1964-65 Roddenberry pilots were the first draft. TOS was the refinement. This is a new work created later, so naturally it takes advantage of all of the refinements and improvements perfected over the decades since.

 

[Nelson Au]

Right, the new creative team are putting their mark in the series. But since there was the Prime Directive we learned from John Eaves that the Discovery team could not use the Enterprise design, for legal reason, so it had to look a certain percentage different. The Directive must apply to the uniforms and props as well.

This is why I was hoping this business with Viacom was settled and Star Trek in all its forms are under one roof and could take advantage of all the legacy. But the lawyers are making that difficult.

 

[Chris Will]

I know most Trek fans get a hard-on for anything TOS related but, I must be the only one who wouldn't want this series, or any other new series to look just like a 1960s TV show. So, even if there weren't any legal issues, I wouldn't want them to use the exact same designs. I can always watch TOS if that is what I want to see.

I had just assumed that they redesigned the Enterprise to fit the aesthetics of new show. Having the original Enterprise show up, unchanged, would have looked odd in the world of Discovery, IMO. Shoot, I thought it looked odd in ENT's In a Mirror Darkly episodes but, they were such fun episodes that I didn't mind.

I think the redesigned E looks great and I like the look of those new uniforms so far. Can't wait for season 2.

 

[joshEH]

I know most Trek fans get a hard-on for anything TOS related but, I must be the only one who wouldn't want this series, or any other new series to look just like a 1960s TV show. So, even if there weren't any legal issues, I wouldn't want them to use the exact same designs. I can always watch TOS if that is what I want to see.

I had just assumed that they redesigned the Enterprise to fit the aesthetics of new show. Having the original Enterprise show up, unchanged, would have looked odd in the world of Discovery, IMO. Shoot, I thought it looked odd in ENT's In a Mirror Darkly episodes but, they were such fun episodes that I didn't mind.

I think the redesigned E looks great and I like the look of those new uniforms so far. Can't wait for season 2.

Yep. It was natural that the creators of the TOS movies back in the '70s and '80s would give a fresh look and style to the universe, because they could. But TNG retained more stylistic continuity with the movies, because it relied heavily on reusing sets, miniatures, and stock footage from the movies to save money (and because it hired movie-veteran designers like Andrew Probert and Rick Sternbach).

And then Rick Berman and his team stayed in charge of the franchise for 18 years, maintaining that consistency to such a degree that fans got in the habit of expecting it to last forever. But now that era is over, and new creators and designers are coming in, and their large budget and CGI mean that they don't need to rely on stock elements, and can design everything from the ground up. So there's a much cleaner break with the past than Trek fans have been used to seeing since 1979.

 

[Nelson Au]

The lead-up to and 1979 premiere of Star Trek The Motion Picture is an interesting thing to look back on. I was a very young then. I had been a fan for the decade from daily viewing of the series. And I’d seen the animated series premiere. I think looking back my entire time as a serious fan of TOS was 9 years or so at that time. And I’d been reading Starlog magazine then. The interviews with the cast and Roddenberry spoke of the advantages of the transition to a major motion picture. They had the money to do more realistic sets and effects. They could update everything. No more cheap plywood sets and crude plastic props. See when I saw the new Enterprise in photos, it was different, but my memory was not of aghast, but cool, new Star Trek. So the nostalgia factor had not engaged yet. Though as fans, people were definitely still wearing TOS costumes, but I remember how quickly the fans accepted the new costumes and props.

The point is now that the series had past 20 years, 30 years, 40 years and now is 50 years old, we look back on TOS with nostalgia and are giving it a lot of reverence. I totally get that. Even the Enterprise from the TOS films is to my eye, as sacrosanct as the TOS Enterprise. But I give the original the edge. No bloody A, B, C, or D. Any deviation from that today is almost sacrilege. It worked out well on DS9 at the 30th Anniversary to use the TOS Enterprise for the Trials and Tribbulations episode. That might have set a precedent. It worked on Enterprise for the Mirror episodes. So it’s been natural for the mixed feelings by so many fans to see what the Kelvin Universe has done and now the Discovery.

I’m really interested in seeing the new take on Pike, the costumes and the new Enterprise. Though, this rift between Viacom and CBS is going to really fracture and confuse fans who are new. Without being able to maintain the design continuity, people will now see so many takes on the Enterprise. Star Wars fans have an advantage of only one master. So everything is consistent.

 

[Sam Favate]

Whoa.
The production troubles continue.

DISCOVERY Showrunners Berg, Harberts Out for Season 2
Alex Kurtzman takes over after reports of "abuses" to writing staff

http://trekcore.com/blog/2018/06/star-trek-discovery-showrunners-harberts-berg-out-for-season-2/

EDIT: Akiva Goldsman also leaving the show.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

So, if you click back and read the full Hollywood Reporter story, there’s all sorts of additional news, including that the show won’t premiere until 2019 (a ridiculously long gap) and that Season 1 writer/producer/director Akiva Goldsman left recently due to issues with the studio.

They’re not even being tasked with producing a standard 22 season episode every year, much less the 26 episode season that most of the previous Trek shows had.

This shouldn’t be this hard.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

This will be the most hands on Kurtzman has been on a show since his screenwriting career took off. Usually he co-writes the pilot and a few first season episodes and then steps back.

Sounds like we might have a situation similar to the first season, where the pilot is really ambitious and looks like a million bucks, only for the subsequent episodes to slowly regress toward the production values of TNG-era "Trek".

If the THR can be believed, it's amazing that in the era of #MeToo Harberts still behaves that way. Sounds like things started getting rough with the studio after the season premiere came in way over budget, and the showrunners started taking out their stress and frustration on the people working under them. If true, they probably deserve to go.

On the other hand, strange that Goldsman -- who I'm certainly no fan of as a general principle -- also, apparently separately, clashed with the writing staff.

 

[Nelson Au]

If I read the Hollywood Reporter article right, Akiva Goldsman never came back. His management style didn’t exactly make for one happy ship.

I’ve seen all the After Trek segments and Harberts and Berg appeared quite often as did Goldsman and were always very upbeat and very pleased with the episode they were on for. They also got along great when one or two of the cast appeared on After Trek too. Of course when people are being interviewed and in public, they will behave well. So it is quite a shock to read about their bad behavior. That is not a fun working environment. I have to wonder what that pair of writers felt who wrote Into The Forest I Go were treated. That was an episode Harberts and Berg highly praised them for. But Bo Yeen Kim and Erika Lippoldt only appeared via Skype. Of course, they may have just wanted to get away and this was easier then flying out to be on the After Trek set.

I have no idea what they were like when Fuller was around and they were doing shows before Discovery, but I am just wondering if the pressures to deliver a quality show, regardless of the quantity of episodes Josh, (And I’m kidding you. . ). I would imagine that they might have felt a lot of pressure to want to maintain momentum from the first year’s highs. Or they simply got really entitled and felt they had to one-up themselves and make the second year better. Maybe they felt beholden to the fans or they had big egos. Whatever the case, they shouldn’t be behaving badly.

Now my main worry is Alex Kurtzman, the Brannon Braga of our new Star Trek era. I jest, but I never liked his work on the Star Trek films. I’ve seen the new Hawaii Five 0 and it had some amusing bits, but it’s not great. I know it’s not all his doing. So I could be worrying for not and I’m not knowledgeable enough to know what his contributions were to the films. I guess we will have to just wait and see.

If they need this much time to make a good show, it will be worth the wait hopefully.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

Wow! So “Discovery” won’t be back until 2019? So even assuming that means “January 2019” (and it could be later; the article didn’t state the month) it could be close to a year between episodes.

This is, unfortunately, starting to be the trend with genre shows. For example, the Fox series “The Orville” only aired 12 episodes last year. The last episode aired in early December. It’s return date is scheduled for 12/30/2018 — a gap of *over* a year! When it does return the season will be comprised of only 14 episodes; and one of those was originally completed as part of its first season.

Geeez ... I still remember what we thought was an agonizing three month break between TNG’s “Best of Both Worlds” Parts 1 and 2. We didn’t realize how spoiled we were back then!

BTW, for those that need it, here’s the link to the article:
https://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-discovery-has-suddenly-changed-showrunners-a-1826848946

 

[Johnny Angell]

I see no reason to keep up my subscription until 2019. Where’s the cancel button?

 

[Sam Favate]

CBS has extended Kurtzman's deal through 2023, with several more Star Trek series said to be part of the deal, including, rumor has it, something with Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard.

https://trekmovie.com/2018/06/19/br...elevision-franchise-alex-kurtzman-to-oversee/

 

[joshEH]

CBS has extended Kurtzman's deal through 2023, with several more Star Trek series said to be part of the deal, including, rumor has it, something with Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard.

https://trekmovie.com/2018/06/19/br...elevision-franchise-alex-kurtzman-to-oversee/

Yeah, I just don't see this happening. Stewart's voice is so gone now that it'd significantly diminish the legacy of the character, plus I simply don't see him committing to a grind-heavy, technically-intensive weekly Trek TV production schedule again at his age. A more limited, recurring guest-starring role would be more likely if anything, where he's not the day-to-day focus of the main storyline. This is probably more like the Tarantino Trek-film -- a fun thing to talk about and speculate on for a few weeks, but ultimately nothing that goes anywhere at the end of the day.

 

[Sam Favate]

I could see it happening, especially if it was for a limited series - say 4 or 6 or 8 episodes. The right project like that is very prestigious these days and it would be another feather in Stewart's already impressive cap.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

I could see it happening, especially if it was for a limited series - say 4 or 6 or 8 episodes. The right project like that is very prestigious these days and it would be another feather in Stewart's already impressive cap.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I really hope this comes to fruition so we get a better send off than Star Trek: Nemesis was able to give this character.

 

[Detour (1945)]

This is probably more like the Tarantino Trek-film -- a fun thing to talk about and speculate on for a few weeks, but ultimately nothing that goes anywhere at the end of the day.

Is the Tarantino Trek film not going forward? If so, that's a shame.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

This is the first I'm hearing about Stewart's voice being gone. I saw him on Broadway a few years ago and he gave a fantastic performance. And though the show itself was just terrible, he sounded fine on "Blunt Talk" last year on Starz. I have full confidence in Stewart's ability to perform in this or any role.