Paramount+ Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread (3 Viewers)

[Josh Steinberg]

After revealing to Stamets that he’s aware of the ability of the spore drive to take the Discovery to other universes, Lorca then goes to the bridge and enters a control on his command chair. Take a good look at that panel right before that final jump. It says “Lorca override." Lorca then says “Let’s go home,” and they jump, with an error, into a seemingly unknown area.

I'm likely wrong, but it's quite suspicious.

Honestly, the only thing that's read as suspicious to me was Stamets in his final scenes. I feel if there's anything suspicious going on, it's that Stamets (in concert with the spores that seem to be taking over part of his DNA) maybe wanted or was compelled to go somewhere off mission - maybe even subconsciously.

The final jump was really Stamets' idea, and we learned earlier in the episode that they were only three hours away by warp from where they wanted to be, so it doesn't seem like a necessary use of the drive. So I think if anyone has a secret agenda, it's Stamets and not Lorca...but I'm not sure of that and I'm definitely not sure if it's a conscious effort or not.

 

[Carabimero]

It's such a tricky series to read because the writing is by turns very sloppy and contrived, then comes a moment of near brilliance. But by and large, the writing here isn't convincing on any level. It seems to have gotten sloppier as the season has gone on. It's like there's no story editor with a brain. They could have achieved every plot point they achieved with logic, not contrivance. I kinda got over it a few episodes back and figured if I was going to enjoy the show, I had to turn my logic circuits off.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Has Nick Meyer contributed nothing to the series? 9 episodes in and not one credit for writing either a completed script or story idea, and not one chance to direct. It seems so odd to hire him and then not use him.

 

[Carabimero]

Has Nick Meyer contributed nothing to the series? 9 episodes in and not one credit for writing either a completed script or story idea, and not one chance to direct. It seems so odd to hire him and then not use him.

I heard he was doing a a Star Trek "Khan" series. Maybe that's why.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

It's such a tricky series to read because the writing is by turns very sloppy and contrived, then comes a moment of near brilliance. But by and large, the writing here isn't convincing on any level.

My problem with the writing is that I just don't buy the premiere - as episodes have moved away from that, it's been easier to go with, but it's a house built on a bad foundation.

Just about every single problem I have with the show is easily fixable and most would have been avoided if it simply took place after Voyager.

The setup was already there to tell a story of warring factions of an alien species uniting agains Starfleet. Just make it the Romulans after the 24th century events of Star Trek '09 and every continuity issue and every technology issue goes away, and the story can stay the same. Heck, since in the 24th century it's discovered that warp drive is bad and destroying space, you could have an organic reason to tell the spore drive story - warp is killing space and they need an alternative. Then the questionable ethical decisions from earlier in the season are more justifiable in terms of seeking real to the story.

 

[Carabimero]

I get what you're saying and agree. But when I talk about the writing being bad, I am almost invariably speaking from the failure of the writers to have their characters operate at maximum capacity, which simply means a character should do everything it can to be smart in solving problems. DISCOVERY is rampant with characters who make reckless, illogical decisions simply to serve plots that the writers were either too lazy or not talented enough to make believable. Every episode is rife with such bad decision making. While it's true humans (and I suppose aliens) sometimes make bad decisions, those decisions should stem from character flaws, not writer contrivance.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

There's no greater example of that than Burnham killing the Klingon leader (who's name I have no idea how to spell) in the pilot. She just lectured Michelle Yeoh that killing him would be bad and lead to a war, and capturing him alive would stop one. And then she kills him anyway, because, feelings.

 

[Blimpoy06]

Discovery just doesn't feel like a ship with an experienced or talented crew that would be out in space. I know that the emphasis is supposed to be on lesser officers who are not the leaders of the ship, but guess what? They shouldn't be making these decisions. That's the flaw. As a junior officer, the burden of choice is not theirs. And by removing the military structure and chain of command from the choices being made, they seem silly or unrealistic. Everyone tells us how vital and important Burnham is to the ship and it's mission, but I just don't see it on the screen. Her duties can be performed by anyone in security off ship, and by one of the hundreds of science specialist who are supposed to be on this advanced vessel.

 

[Nelson Au]

This last episode was written by Erika Lippoldt and her writing partner Bo Yeon Kim. Their only other IMDB credit is for Reign. I think they’ve barely gotten out of diapers. It’s been popular to just say it’s the Millennials that’s the problem. And maybe it is the reason for the logic we seee and why a convicted mutineer is allow to do what she’s doing. But if you guys are really upset with the writing, I wondered if this is a factor. But I know there’s a show runner there to supervise, coach, give input, edit, etc. so at the end of the day, the responsibility should go there.

I’m not someone who would really know how to analyze or recognize good writing. I’m a visual person, I am a designer and my logic stems from the design of the things I design and that the design choices hang together and make sense and works for the user, it’s a technical job, and an artistic job that straddles design, art and engineering. Maybe that’s one reason why I like 2001: A Space Odyssey, it’s total cinema. It tells a story by imagery. And so if what I’m seeing and hearing moves me, then that’s good.

So for how I’m liking Discovery, I’m open to it and how a new group takes a look at it. I don’t have your issues Josh of the time period. Alan, I can’t argue about how good or bad the writing is and if it’s logic make sense. That’s why I wondered if the Millennials are liking this Star Trek verses our generation who came from The Original Series. I can’t help but take to heart Kirk’s line, “young minds, fresh ideas, be tolerant.” and what Gene Roddenberry once said, which was how he hopes a new generation of people take Star Trek and do their take on it. And do it better. So far I’m liking what they are doing. If I see something I don’t like, I’ll bring it up. So pardon my rant, just wanted to speak what I had in mind.

I watched part of the After Trek segment last night, and I want to see the rest as the writers of this last episode are guests. Maybe we’ll learn a little more there.

By the way, of course that last jump would have something go wrong! All the time Stamets and Lorca were in the flight deck, I kept expecting something to happen, like a Klingon battle cruiser would de-cloak and start shooting. I did see Lorca do some button pressing on the controls on the arm of his chair right before the last jump. But it wasn’t clear to me, so I’ll definitely have another look there.

Also, earlier when Lorca is convincing Stamets to make the 132 or how many jumps needed, the graphics being shown by Lorca from his studying how the jumps made so far gave him a view of all the places the spore drive could take them was a give away that one of them is the Mirror Universe.

Oh, and I thought you guys would be happy when Michael had the universal translator working and the Klingons were speaking in English.

Finally, not sure you guys would want to think about this, but the Verge had an article on this episode’s examination of the effects of the kind of torture that Tyler endured to stay alive. That was some pretty grim imagery. Not that this was the topical issue this episode was trying to use to elevate it to TOS level.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/13/16644468/star-trek-discovery-rape

Josh, By the way, my take on why Michael killed T’Kuvma was because I imagine it’s a chaotic situation and she just saw her Captain stabbed, so she shot trying to save her. And I agree, it might just be Stamets idea to do that jump, so Lorca might not have expected that result.

 

[David Weicker]

An example of poor writing/plotting occurred in this past episode.

Burnham and Tyler are on a covert mission to plant sensors. Yet with only half the task accomplished, they take a detour.

A competent officer would have made sure both sensors were in place before investigating some possible human survivor.

Besides putting the mission in jeopardy, they also prolonged the time that Discovery was in peril

 

[Nelson Au]

I thought one reason Michael showed herself to Kol and the extra time taken to find the human readings, gave Discovery the time it needed to keep pecking away at the sarcophagus ship. Though I agree they could have finished planting the sensors first. But then Michael wouldn’t have a chance to go back and find the Admiral after being exposed.

 

[Carabimero]

There seems to be a trend in this country against intellectualism, a move toward the irrational. IMHO ST: Discovery seems to be infected by it. I don't know how else to explain so many characters doing so many inexplicably stupid things.

And "stupid" was a very careful word choice. Runners up were "ignorant" and "dumb," but "stupid" fits best.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

I thought the first two-thirds of this episode was a five star effort!

The show was focused and fast-paced and, amazingly, wrapped up at least 4 ongoing plotlines during that period.

In regards to Michael exposing herself to the Klingon commander Kol: Kol had just ordered the vessel to go to Warp. At that point a diversion was required in order to allow Discovery to complete their micro-jumps which would allow for the full 360 degree mapping of the exterior of the ship which — when combined with the data provided by the transmission from the planted sensors — would provide sufficient information to allow for the tracking of the Klingon ships while cloaked. (Of course, as Spock pointed out in “The Enterprise Incident”, all military advantages are fleeting.)

 

[Carabimero]

It wasn't Michael's decision to expose her presence to Kol I took exception with; it was the decision to rescue the unknown lifeform at the expense of stopping a war. And Lorca's decision to send Tyler back aboard a Klingon vessel was one of the most jaw-dropping stupidest things he's ever done. I could go on and on. The problem is not that the characters are doing stupid things as much as it is that there is no character of authority standing up and saying, "Wait a second...we need to rethink this."

It's exactly what Darin was saying: There's no opposition on the bridge (or even off the bridge) to the rampant stupidity.

I thought one reason Michael showed herself to Kol and the extra time taken to find the human readings, gave Discovery the time it needed to keep pecking away at the sarcophagus ship. Though I agree they could have finished planting the sensors first. But then Michael wouldn’t have a chance to go back and find the Admiral after being exposed.

You put your finger on it here. Clearly the decision making was influenced by what the writers needed, not what made the most sense to actually do. So it isn't Michael we're watching make decisions; it's the writers. This sums up my problem with the overall writing on this show--and why I have a hard time believing so many of the characters. They know the right things to do but episode after episode the writers aren't letting them do it.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

I enjoyed the mid-season finale. I think Alan's right that the writer's took some shortcuts (it was bizarre to jeopardize the mission to find the other human on board. While I can accept Burnham's need to save every last person she can in a war she feels responsible for starting, we've not seen enough of that onscreen to have us readily accept the decision). I liked the ideas at play in this episode and felt the energy and tension.

I still don't know how to use spoiler tags (for shame, I know), so I will be delicate here. I think the show has given us clear answers or at least very strong indications about the captain (where he might be from), where the ship is now, and what's really going on with Tyler's character (I think it's what many suspected earlier in the thread, the difference being that he doesn't fully know it himself for reasons that will be explained. And the 'Klingon rape' will turn out not to be that at all). If these things turn out to be true, I will applaud the show not for fooling us (as there are things I feel are being clearly laid out) but for the boldness of the choices. I also think many viewers will be rewarded with repeat viewings. And this show is still so very young. Precious few launch out of the gates with near perfection so any of the shakiness I feel the show has I am willing to give it time to find its footing. Trek shows are notorious for taking time to find themselves.

As for Alan's question about cancelling during the break. Probably not. I think I will just keep it, maybe watch some of the After Trek's (which I have not seen any of) and I might spend some time seeing if there are any other reasons for me to have this subscription besides Discovery.

So, in sum, a flawed but exciting mid-season finale that opened up lots of possibilities for the second half.

 

[Yee-Ming]

An admiral and commander arguing over the orders in full view of the bridge crew? I don't care if Lorca gives a crap or not and even with it being the Vulcan admiral he loathes it's ludicrous.

I'm wondering if I've missed or misremembered something: wasn't Spock the first Vulcan in Starfleet? if so, how can there be a Vulcan admiral at this time? (I mean, yes it was patently a Vulcan who is an admiral, so I'm not saying Bob was wrong -- what I mean is the writers shouldn't have created such a character at all in the first place.)

 

[mattCR]

This is a series I wanted to enjoy, but find myself just drifting away from; characters behave irrationally and it just turns off my interest.

I found this week especially frustrating, where we'd get into points that I'd think: "OK, now we're going to.. nope, we're going to do the dumbest thing possible."

This has happened frequently. Also, and maybe it's because I binge watched DS9 in the last year, I find that this is a trek series where we know almost nothing worth knowing about any of the characters save one. This is problematic because I can't invest in any of the characters, since they are only cardboard cutouts fulfilling a plot.

 

[Bryan^H]

There seems to be a trend in this country against intellectualism, a move toward the irrational. IMHO ST: Discovery seems to be infected by it. I don't know how else to explain so many characters doing so many inexplicably stupid things.

And "stupid" was a very careful word choice. Runners up were "ignorant" and "dumb," but "stupid" fits best.

I can't imagine a shift in the writing, but Star Trek used to be thought provoking, with intelligent well crafted stories. Now I describe the episodes of Discovery as "fun". That is the best word I can think of. Well, also it is still a staggeringly beautiful show.

I'm still watching, and will see it through to the end of this season. It is just sad that I feel the same way about this show as I used to feel about Hercules, or Xena in the mid 90's. It is just a goofy, fun show. A far cry from what I want in a Star Trek series, but it is all we have.

 

[Nelson Au]

This is why I brought up the millennials. Perhaps it's a trend to move away from intellectual and perhaps this is what they want to do to gain a newer younger audience.

Part of my reason for enjoying the show is I just let go of all that thinking and not think. I'm going with emotion.

I don't know if this is very apt, but I was thinking as a youth, I was raised on classic rock. Then new wave music hit while I was in college. I wasn't able to buy much music then and heard it on the radio. I thought it had a cool new sound, but I never bought the albums. this might be new wave Star Trek. I know, I'm just tossing this out as a random thought.

The trekmovie site has a good review of this episode I thought.

 

[TJPC]

I'm wondering if I've missed or misremembered something: wasn't Spock the first Vulcan in Starfleet? if so, how can there be a Vulcan admiral at this time? (I mean, yes it was patently a Vulcan who is an admiral, so I'm not saying Bob was wrong -- what I mean is the writers shouldn't have created such a character at all in the first place.)

Of course there was a Vulcan on “Enterprise” (T’Pol”) who became a member of Star fleet as the series progressed.